medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Tom's right. Cranmer initially translated a selection (Evensong includes
prayers from both Vespers and Compline) for use by parish clergy. He
then revised this for community use. Anglican parish clergy should still
say these 2 services daily, preferably in church: I know of some who do.
Maddy
Dr Madeleine Gray, in the foothills of God's golden county of Gwent
Senior Lecturer in History
School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion, PO /Blwch Post 179
Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3YG, Wales/Cymru
Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
'I ask you for help. And all you give me is ...papers!'
(Magda in Gian Carlo Menotti's The Consul)
History at University of Wales, Newport: http://timezone.newport.ac.uk
Gwent County History Association website:
http://gwent-county-history-association.newport.ac.uk
Cistercian Way: http://cistercian-way.newport.ac.uk
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Tom
Izbicki
Sent: 18 February 2008 15:07
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Cathedral horae
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
I read somewhere that the present English practice of Morning Prayer and
evening Prayer sung at cathedrals derives from the cathedral office of
the Sarum use.
Tom Izbicki
John Wickstrom wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
>
> Robert Taft offers an accessible summary of recent thinking on this
> issue in his / The Liturgy of the Hours in East and West. / The thesis
> is that the "cathedral office" of the early church observed only Lauds
> and Vespers. The monastic office with the other hours, esp. Matins,
> developed separately and piecemeal (with Prime and Compline being
> quite late to develop). IN late centuries, secular churches would
> adopt more or less of the additional monastic hours as local
> circumstances or piety suggested. I would imagine that esp. in
> England, where monastic chapters were often associated with
> cathedrals, that the full monastic office was more commonly observed
> than elsewhere.
>
> jbw
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> John B. Wickstrom
>
> Kalamazoo College
>
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of John
Briggs
> Sent: Sunday, February 17, 2008 6:13 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Cathedral horae
>
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
>
>
>
> Ms B M Cook wrote:
>
> >
>
> > I am familiar with the "horae" of the monastic day, lauds, mattins,
>
> > sext, prime &c and the varying times of day for each several office
>
> > depending on the available daylight, but can anyone tell me the
>
> > extent to this was replicated in a Cathedral as opposed to a
>
> > monastery ? I realise that where the Cathedral Canons were also
>
> > monks the "opus dei" would probably have been identical to
>
> > contemporary Benedictine custom, but what about other Cathedrals,
>
> > particularly those with prebendial canons ? (Austen ? Canons ?)
Would
>
> > the daily offices have been the same ? Would they have had the same
>
> > night-time offices ?
>
> >
>
> > Any advice on this point would be helpful, especially if Continental
>
> > practice differed from the English.
>
>
>
> Well, I can only answer (in part) for the English cathedrals. They had
a
>
> full liturgy, of course, and that included Matins (if you remember,
Sarum
>
> feasts were classified by the number of soloists for the invitatory at
>
> matins). The chances of canons getting up in the middle of the night
were
>
> minimal, of course, and so the strain would have fallen on the Vicars
> Choral
>
> (at least one reason why they were employed in the first place -
> tone-death
>
> canons being another). Of course, it is unlikely that in the secular
>
> cathedrals that matins would have been any earlier than strictly
> necessary,
>
> but on special occasions it would have had to be at the "correct" time
(a
>
> couple of years ago I tried to initiate a debate here on the time that
> the
>
> Missa in Gallicantu - which followed on from matins - would actually
have
>
> taken place at Salisbury, bearing in mind the length of the liturgy
for
>
> Christmas Day and the time actually available).
>
>
>
> At Benedictine cathedrals, the monks weren't canons - they were just
> monks.
>
> There was only one English cathedral staffed by Austin canons,
> Carlisle, and
>
> that is barely in England, so it is likely to be atypical in all sorts
of
>
> ways.
>
>
>
> John Briggs
>
>
>
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