medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Joinville reports this anecdote in his Life of St. Louis (from M.R.B. Shaw's 1963 translation for Penguin, pp. 177-78). I would guess this story is the main source for Louis' policy toward excommunicates. (He repeats in in the last part of the biography.)
I saw the king on another occasion, at a time when all the French prelates had said they wished to speak with him, and he had gone to his palace to hear what they had to say. Bishop Guy of Auxerre, the son of Guillaume de Mello, was among those present, and he addressed the king on behalf of all the prelates. "Your Majesty," he said, "The Lords Spiritual [i.e., bishops] of this realm present here, have directed me to tell you that the cause of Christianity, which it is your duty to guard and defend, is being ruined in your hands." On hearing these words the king crossed himself and said: "Pray tell me how that may be?"
"Your Majesty," said the bishop, "it is because at the present time excommunications are so lightly regarded that people think nothing of dying without seeking absolution, and refuse to make their peace with the Church. The Lords Spiritual require you therefore, for the love of God and because it is your duty, to command your provosts and your baillis to seek out all those who allow themselves to remain under the ban of the Church for a year and a day, and compel them, by seizure of their possessions, to get themselves absolved."
The king replied that he would willingly give such orders provided he himself could be shown without any doubt that the persons concerned were in the wrong. The bishop told him that the prelates would not on any account accept this condition, since they questioned his right to adjudicate in their affairs. The king replied that he would not do anything other than he had said; for it would be against God and contrary to right and justice if he compelled any man to seek absolution when the clergy were doing him wrong.
"As an example of this," he continued, "I will quote the case of the Count of Brittany, who for seven whole years, while under sentence of excommunication, pleaded his cause against the bishops of his province, and carried his case so far that in the end the pope condemned all his adversaries. Now, if at the end of the first year I had forced the count to seek absolution, I should have sinned against God and against the man himself." So the prelates resigned themselves to accepting things as they were; and I have never heard tell that any further demand was made in relation to this matter.
Best,
John
-------------------------------------------------
John Shinners
Professor of Humanistic Studies
Saint Mary's College
Notre Dame, IN 46556
Office: (574) 284-4494
Fax: (574) 284-4716
----- Original Message -----
From: Diana Wright <[log in to unmask]>
Date: Monday, May 9, 2005 3:50 pm
Subject: [M-R] Louis IX & excommunication
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
> I am a Byzantinist & Venetianist, not a medievalist, & these lists
> have been getting me through the Medieval-Renaissance History
> course I am teaching this term. I have bought at least 20 books
> from the recommendations given, & am especially in love with John
> Larner's books, all new to me.
>
> Our text (Hunt & al., 2005 ed., weight about 417 pounds; selected
> by people who have an easier time lifting than I do) says on p.
> 453: " . . . French bishops wanted royal officers to support the
> church's sentences of excommunication. But Louis declared that he
> would authorize his officials to do so only if he were able to
> judge each case for himself, to see if the excommunication had
> been justly pronounced or not."
>
> My students (mostly Catholic) find this fascinating & want to know
> if anyone did appeal to Louis, & if he did not support a
> particular excommunication, & what the reaction to that was.
>
> Many thanks.
>
> DW
>
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