George,

"The bodies who support our section of design professions should be 
setting standards for others who wish to employ designers can use. 
Similarly, the consequences of not using accredited designers, as well 
as the benefits, should be more widely publicised."

This would be so perfect especially for the graphic design market. I've 
already pondered about how to bring such a "seal of quality" forward but 
came to the conlcusion that we don't have the neccessary infrastructure 
in germany.

There are already some barriers for academic graphic designers (entrance 
examination, test, diploma thesis, etc.) and some minor barriers for 
trained designers. But these barriers are not enough to prevent people 
from outside to try their luck in our market. Especially in Berlin there 
are so many people who support their job in the creative branch with 
another job while they erode the prices. Some of my colleagues argue 
that the career changers are necessary and that their talent should be 
the only criteria. They assume that the market will solve the 
problemwith untalented designers. But likeI said they are going to cross 
support their creative job.

What we need is the necessary infrastructure. A good example for such an 
institution is the chamber of architects. Every architect must be a 
member of this chamber. Thechamber observes the adherence of the german 
architecs law. This law regulates in detail how much the single services 
of an architec can cost. They are allowed to impose sanctions for 
architects who do what they want. Ofcourse there is still enough room 
for competition because the service structure of a modern architecs 
bureau includes more than the law covers.

As long as we are missing a designer law we can not build up an 
infrastructure.


"As you have stated Kai, designers are still seen as artisans rather 
than professionals, such as the different disciplines of engineering and 
architecture.  In my opinion key elements that will in the future 
provide delineation between artisans and professionals will be the 
prediction of design outcomes, based on given variables, alongside the 
validation of a realised design solution. Within the Loughborough Design 
School already use an evidence-based approach to designing and design 
decision-making, alongside a mixed methods approach for design research 
and validation."

Can you tell me more about this?

Best wishes
Kai



Am 23.08.2013 13:23, schrieb George Torrens:
> Dear Kai,
>
> I would agree that work previously undertaken by professional designers, in particular graphic design and ID, is now being done by those who would not be accredited designers in those professions. This has been accelerated by the use of accessible CAD systems providing a surface veneer of believable visual rhetoric to a design solution.
>
> The bodies who support our section of design professions should be setting standards for others who wish to employ designers can use. Similarly, the consequences of not using accredited designers, as well as the benefits, should be more widely publicised.
>
> I would disagree with Victor's comments:
>
> 'As project managers and/or industrial design lecturers our interest I suppose is in the search for those great game-changing ideas, not discriminating a priori because a lack of communication skills, which can be developed.'
>
> As an academic, I am interested to support and develop best practice for my profession, Industrial design. Whilst I would still consider myself a practitioner, the two activities are separate; I could not effectively support industrial partners if I am competing with them for ID contracts.
>
> As you have stated Kai, designers are still seen as artisans rather than professionals, such as the different disciplines of engineering and architecture.  In my opinion key elements that will in the future provide delineation between artisans and professionals will be the prediction of design outcomes, based on given variables, alongside the validation of a realised design solution. Within the Loughborough Design School already use an evidence-based approach to designing and design decision-making, alongside a mixed methods approach for design research and validation.
>
> I would hope to discuss details of this methodology and methods in future postings.
>
> Best wishes
>
> George
>
> Mr George Edward Torrens
> Lecturer
> Year one tutor
> Loughborough Design School
> East Park Design School
> Loughborough University
> Loughborough
> Leicestershire
> LE11 3TU
> Tel. +1509 222 664 Mob. +780 196 1673
> Fax. +1509 223 999
> http://www.linkedin.com/pub/george-torrens/7/3b/524
>
> ________________________________________
> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Kai Reinhardt [[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 23 August 2013 11:37
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Must a designer be trained as a designer?
>
> one additional note: I've recognized that most of you are coming from an
> industrial or product design background. That influences the discussion.
>
> I'm from a graphic design background, studied visual communication and
> wanted to become an illustrator initially. Now I'm chewing program codes
> every day although design is still present in my work. I totally agree
> that the pressure on designers to justify themselfes is very high and I
> understand the frustration that lead to the comment on sociologist and
> historians.
>
> I can speek only for the german design scene but the situation is even
> worse here. We are competing against an increasing amount of marketing
> people and digital media designers (bad translation of the job profile
> because it includes design). While the marketing people behave like
> Kraken and try to manage everything without the ability to judge visual
> communication work, the digital media designers are just servants for
> enterpreneurs who are used to dictate the direction.  Unfortunately the
> average person can't tell the difference in our profiles and in the
> quality of our work.
>
> In my eyes the major problem is the definition of a designer. In Germany
> everyone can call himself a designer. Even my plumber could do it. Or
> the thai lady at the nail design studio. It is prohibited to call
> yourself an engineer, doctor or architect but to call yourself a
> designer is totally allright because we are seen on one level with
> artists. This is also reflected in my income.
>
> The German government invests into the education of academic designers
> in the hope of an ROI in higher taxes but at the same time they have
> opened the market for everyone by denying the worth of our title. I
> could show you statics about the income of german designers which would
> make you cry. Basically they read like 'wages are ok but I can't afford
> a family'.
>
> This would be enough to warn younger people of becoming a designer. One
> additional reason would be the structure of our education. We are
> trained at universities whose curriculas are always behind the actual
> market demands. When I graduated six years ago the market demanded
> completely different things than I was trained for. The abilites I got
> at university weren't needed. Not to speak about the market nowaday.
> This would be ok if there were enough mandates for us but even on an
> academical level we are to many people for the work.
>
> In this situation I would like to burn everyone who uses the title
> "Designer" without "permission".
>
>
>
>
> Am 23.08.2013 11:47, schrieb victor.martinez:
>> Absolutely agree,
>>
>> There is only one distinction to be made, externalisation in order to communicate ideas to third parties or as part of the search in the problem space to build those ideas? (Goldschmidt, G 1997). My point is that Gero (previously cited) gave us evidence that you can build excellent ideas without the need of sketching, communicating those ideas to others is another matter, evidently essential in practice.
>>
>> As project managers and/or industrial design lecturers our interest I suppose is in the search for those great game-changing ideas, not discriminating a priori because a lack of communication skills, which can be developed.
>>
>> best regards,
>>
>>
>> Victor G. Martinez
>>
>> Post Graduate Researcher
>> Centre for Design Research
>> Department of Design
>> Faculty of Arts, Design and Social Sciences
>> Northumbria University
>>
>> www.trophec.com
>> www.vgmtheory.com
>>
>>
>> Please think if your really need to print this email
>>
>>
>> Goldschimdt, G. (1997). "Capturing indeterminism: representation in the design problem space." Design studies 18: 441-445
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Mark Evans [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: Friday, August 23, 2013 10:24 AM
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Must a designer be trained as a designer?
>>
>> Holly
>>
>> I accept that capability to sketch (externalise with a high level of efficiency/meaning) will vary between the visually creative design disciplines. For my field of industrial design, this can be a particularly challenging skill to master but is central to being an competent and employable practitioner. From what I have seen of the work from other disciplines, sketching still remains a distinctive and core capability for the designer.
>>
>> Thanks
>>
>> Mark
>>
>> ________________________________________
>> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related research in Design [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of McQuillan, Holly [[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 23 August 2013 09:54
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: Must a designer be trained as a designer?
>>
>> Hi Mark
>> I can probably agree generally with your comments (I think, I might need to ponder them for a bit longer) except for one point.
>>
>> You write:
>> "I also espouse that if you can’t sketch, you’re not a designer."
>>
>> I don't generally sketch, and don't claim any talent in it at all. But I'm still a designer. There are many other ways of "externalising complex, beautiful and ingenious design solutions" in my experience. Unless you mean 'sketch' in the very broadest sense I do not agree.
>>
>> Holly McQuillan
>> School of Design
>> CoCA
>> Massey University.
>> www.hollymcquillan.com
>>
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