medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
To clarify: the Convocation of Canterbury is a Provincial Synod.
John Briggs
On 13/02/2013, Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> From: BRIGGS JOHN <[log in to unmask]>
>
>> The role continued - in 1604 (the See of Canterbury being vacant)
> Richard Bancroft, as Dean of the Province of Canterbury, presided over
> the Convocation which approved the Anglican Canons of 1604. (He
> himself became Archbishop of Canterbury a few months later.)
>
> clearly, *some*body had to take over certain tasks when a see (episcopal or
> archiepiscopal) was vacant.
>
> in the Chartres documents, there are quite a few charters which were issued
> by
> the Dean of the chapter (the cathedra being vacant --i forget the exact
> phrase, and even if i could remember it, i would probably remember it
> wrong,
> which would lead to some knashing of teeth on the part of Brother Briggs).
>
> i'm not familiar at all with the charters from Sens (in whose province
> Chartres was), so i can't say what the ones which were issued during a
> lacuna
> there.
>
> presumably, those dealing with matters only pertaining to the *see* of Sens
> would have been issued by the Dean of the cathedral --after all, what power
> did any suffragan bishop of the Province have to issue purely "domestic"
> charters of the diocese of Sens?
>
> as for charters dealing with Provincial matters, one might well ask: what
> power did the Dean of the chapter of Sens have to issue one of those?
>
> those latter --in the case of a matter which had to be dealt with in some
> urgency-- would have called for some Higher Authority, like, maybe, a
> "Dean"
> of the Province, who held episcopal rank.
>
> these theoretical considerations aside, i'm sure that the issue could be
> easily answered by someone more familiar than i with documents of a
> Provincial
> character which were issued during an archiepiscopal lacuna.
>
> since Chartres was not the chef-lieu (what shall we call it?) of a
> Province,
> i've just never had occasion to come across any such charters.
>
> must have happened, if not all the time, at least with some frequency, esp.
> when there was some considerable delay in filling an empty archiepiscopal
> miter.
>
> presumably, the suffragan bishop who was the "Dean of the Province" would
> also
> have presided over whatever conclave was called to "elect" the new
> archbishop.
>
>
> (say, come to think on it, how *were* archbishops chosen? from the "clergy
> &
> people" of the diocese, like bishops, or from a broader group of "electors"
> representing the Province at large? or was the King's role the really
> dispositive one?)
>
>
> but, i say again, i've never seen a document --or a secondary source--
> which
> refers to a suffragan bishop of a Province being styled "Dean" of that
> Province.
>
> which certainly doesn't mean that there were not guys in 11th-12th c.
> France
> who held such a title.
>
> c
>
>> On 12/02/2013, Christopher Crockett <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> > culture
>> >
>> > From: ANDREW MILLIGAN <[log in to unmask]>
>> >
>> >> I think Jon had a slip of his typing finger - which I did not notice
> till
>> >> cc
>> > pointed it up. I think he meant to say Henry IV executed Archbishop
> Scrope
>> >
>> >
>> > ahhh, excommunicated, executed... not much difference to the True
> Believer,
>> > i
>> > suppose.
>> >
>> >> Re bishop of London as dean of the province, I think it's explained in
>> >> Irene
>> > Churchill...or ...in EF Jacob's edition....Gerald Bray may have
>> > something
>> > to
>> > say.... I'm afraid I don't know how old the custom was - I just know it
> was
>> > well established by my period (early 15th century -
>> >
>> >
>> > all very fine Scholarship, i'm sure, and i'll be sure to look them up
> when
>> > i
>> > have a moment in the next incarnation, but what's the Bottom Line?
>> >
>> > what were the duties of this "dean" --o.k., in c. 15?
>> >
>> > c
>> >
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>>
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