medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
This is very interesting Richard. I haven't had time to check it yet, but the programme of stained glass in the clerestory windows of the east end of Reims Cathedral represent all the suffagan bishoprics in the archdiocese by means of an image of their bishop accompanied by an image of the facade of their cathedral, with Reims in the axial position. They are said to be in the order they would sit in during a synod. I can't wait to check to see where Soissons is in all this!
Cheers,
Jim
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From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [[log in to unmask]] on behalf of Kay, Richard [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: February 12, 2013 9:32 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bishops as dean of an ecclesiastic province (WAS: Re: [M-R] transmission of news in early 15th-century western Europe)
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Actually, Christopher, many French provinces had a dean of the bishops, at least in the 13th century, when my research (ca. 1959) stopped. The basis was most likely the seating order in a provincial council, plus the chapter as the canonistic model of corporate structure. Anyway, here are some documented cases.
Bishop of Clermont, dean of Bourges province. Ref. Mansi 24:1117-19. Also Lacger in Rev. hist. eccl. 16 (1930).
Bishop of Soissons, dean of Reims province. Ref. Varin, Archives admin., 1:565, 600.
And (glory be!) bishop of Chartres, dean of Sens. Ref. Martene, Antiq. Rit., 3 (1702 edn), p. 417. Also Mansi, 24:334; cf. 337-338.
By now somebody has no doubt done an exhaustive study of all this, or should.
Richard Kay
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Christopher Crockett
Sent: Tuesday, February 12, 2013 12:23 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Bishops as dean of an ecclesiastic province (WAS: Re: [M-R] transmission of news in early 15th-century western Europe)
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
> On 02/12/13, Christopher Crockett wrote:
> "i've never come across this term/office "dean of the province" in
> France. i
assume that it was a peculiarly Western Fringe phenomenon? was this "dean"
--who apparently also happened to be a bishop himself-- some kind of "vice-archbishop" for the province? what were his duties? when was this odd practice established? and, why for? all information about these or any other of the Bizarre Idiosyncrasies of the Western Fringe is always welcome to the Unenlightened."
> Not entirely a "peculiarly Western Fringe phenomenon", unless by
> "Western
Fringe" brother Crockett refers not only -- as is his wont -- to the British Isles but also to western portions of the German-ruled Imperium Romanum.
well, technically speaking, the western portions of the I.R. would have to be parts of the Eastern Fringe which is the same as the Western Fringe only, you know, different.
i mean, those poor folks out there were so confused that they didn't even know which end of their major churches was the most important one, so they made both ends round just to be sure not to make any mistakes...
they were evidently Belt *and* Suspenders guys.
just like those U.S. corporate moguls who give campaign money to both the Dimmoecan & Repuglickum parties, covering their bets on both Tweedledee & Tweedledumb.
>Traditionally, the bishop of Toul was dean of the ecclesiastical
>province of
Trier. See (e.g.) this in the _Journal de la Société d'archéologie et du comité du Musée lorrain_, 11 (1862), at pp. 237-38 (a Google Books
digitization):
> http://tinyurl.com/bfxpcm6
> Here the dignity of dean of the ecclesiastical province seems to have
> been
largely honorary, giving the incumbent the duties of consecrating archbishops of Trier and of consecrating other bishops of the province when the archbishop was unable to do so.
"largely honorary"?
seems to me that "le droit d'exercer certaines fonctions du métropolitain en cas d'empechement ou absence de cet archeveque" was a bit more than "honorary"
--he either had the right to exercise these certain functions or he didn't.
and, if he did, then, well, he did, exercise those functions.
consecrating one's Archbishop was perhaps an "honor," but it was certainly more than merely "honorary."
i suppose that such an arrangement --having a kind of "vice-archbishop" makes a degree of sense (after all, *some*body had to consecrate the new archbishop), and i have seen some references to suffragan bishops exercising some functions (like the dedication of a church), filling in for the Archbishop.
but i've never seen a suffragan bishop specifically referred to as being the "dean" of a province.
which bishop was the "dean" of the Province of Sens?
i have no idea.
maybe it's mentioned somewhere in the Gallia Christiana vols. for that province, but i certainly have no memory of having seen a reference to such a title.
i wonder if there is any entry in DuCange for "vice-[achi]episcopus" or somesuchlike term.
or, for that matter, a section in his "diaconus" entry which covers this Fringe usage, West or East.
c
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