medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
> Quite right. I had completely misremembered these when I came to
characterize them for that post. My mental picture of a siren in this set was
nothing at all like the figure shown at right here (with her "Gothic" sway):
> ttp://tinyurl.com/3nbvh3v
sorry, John, i didn't intend my ideological rant to be taken personally.
after all, you did put "romanesque" in quotes.
plus, you, at least, have an Excuse --unlike an endless number of (mostly 2nd
rank) art hysterians who constantly use that term as though it actually meant
something, esp. in the context of the interface between "romanesque" and
"early gothic" sculpture/architecture (which is where the application of the
terms gets really, really sticky).
to their credit, really fist class scholars in the field avoid the issue all
together (if avoidance may be thought of as being creditable), using terms
like "frügotische" (Sauerlander) or "Premičre Sculpture Gothique"
(Grodecki) when speaking of sculpture --everybody knows, of course, what
"gothic" means in an architectural context, since everybody knows it when they
see it.
i myself don't know what the analogous situation would be in the terminology
used in the history of theology --mainly because i know next to nothing about
that field.
something surrounding the use of the term "scholasticism," i suppose (as did
Erwin Panofsky, even before me). [the OED, btw, notes that the term is of even
more recent origin than "gothic", attributing its first usage to Joseph
Warton, An essay on the writings and genius of Pope, London,
1756].
but, hey, "scholasticism" is *Real* (as it were) and *every*body knows what
*it* is when they see it.
ditto, the "realist" / "nominalist" issue [a terminology only dating from
1830+] --which, i presume, had no fence sitters, just partisans on one side of
the issue or the other, none of this "pointed arches but no rib vaults"
confusing grayness.
likewise, the 12th c. Victorines were obviously "early scholastics" --since
they had a school-- while the Cistercians were thoroughly "romanesque"
backsliding Luddites, since they didn't.
anyway, apologies for the ad hominemism, if it was perceived as such.
just Venting, on a favorite Peeve.
c
------ Original Message ------
Received: Mon, 10 Oct 2011 09:53:06 AM EDT
From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Feasts and Saints of the Day: October 10
> On 10/10/11, Christopher Crockett wrote:
>> From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
>>> Xanten's present cathedral of St. Victor was begun in 1190. Prior to
February 1945 most of it was of the later thirteenth to early sixteenth
centuries...
>>> Clerestory sculptures ("romanesque"):
>>> http://tinyurl.com/3fojatj
>> always a rather sticky issue, this question of how and when to apply this
> > thoroughly modren construct "romanesque" (and its corresponding
> > anti-construct, "Gothic"), but i'd say that there is nothing whatever
which
> > can be said to be "romanesque" in those figures --esp. the lady on the
left.
> >
>
> Quite right. I had completely misremembered these when I came to
characterize them for that post. My mental picture of a siren in this set
was nothing at all like the figure shown at right here (with her "Gothic"
sway):
> ttp://tinyurl.com/3nbvh3v
>
> --JD
>
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