Dear Robert,
not sure who mentioned the proposed changes to street signs in the US - but I recall the idea of using Initial caps with lower case was to account for the ageing population (I saw this on PBS Newshour).
I'd add to the cultural aspects you talk about such things as road design where the design has communication features that indicate (or fail to) such things as proximity of sign to event (how far from a turn-off is the sign that implicates an upcoming turn off) and, how long the peel-off to the exit lane is by way of an introduction to the event of peeling off. I notice, as a person from NSW in Australia that when I enter Victoria, their signs and exit lane introductions are placed differently such that I have trouble navigating exit lanes - I predict that the introduction will be much longer and more gradual, especially on 110kph multi-lane freeways.
cheers
keith russell
OZ newcastle
>>> Robert Harland <[log in to unmask]> 13/04/11 6:54 PM >>>
Thanks Ken for your encouraging remarks.
I omitted from my initial email, though it was at the back of my mind, a concrete comparison of the letter spacing on motorway signs in the UK, USA and say, France. This is where the general (travelling) public do see concrete examples of variable letter spacing, and where discussion enters into the realms of visual culture, perhaps beyond what Per Mollerup (2005) tells us about 'identification' and more towards what Phil Baines alludes to matters of national identity (1999).
I'm wondering to what extent this contributes to understanding of our own sense of place, national identity, and well-being. For example, when I drive out of the Port of Dover in the UK from holidaying in France, I feel good that I'm back on familiar territory again and not far from home. In part, the motorway signs 'tell' me this by doing more than identifying motorway. Might this extend into the realm of how typographic design, and the wider aspects of graphic design, 'tell' us more than the fact we have crossed a national boundary? Any further examples of this from list members welcome.
At a local level, Martin will be interested in the uproar in Cambridge in 1950 when:
'The appearance of new street nameplates [in Cambridge] led to a protest against the shape and spacing of their sans serif capitals from the University Printer, which was followed by debate in the Town Council and discussion in the Cambridge Daily News' (Tomrley, 1950).
Notably, this is reported in the UK publication 'Design' as an early example of public interest in the standard of lettering on public signs. The article included new proposals by the stone-carver and letterer David Kindersley (examples shown in Design) of his work emphasising not only the need for ‘enlightened standards’ of ‘inscriptional lettering’ but also the introduction of ‘a system of letter-spacing which can be applied by untrained operatives’ to enhance the legibility of signs when seen obliquely. Significantly, this is in advance of the later work by Kinneir and Calvert on the UK road sign system.
If anyone knows of earlier reported examples of when 'systems of letter spacing' have been applied to public signage, I'd be interested to know.
As you suggest, the issues are far from trivial. At an international level, for example, the implications are potentially massive for the changes to the road network signage in the US (first brought to my attention on this list - possibly by Ken if my memory serves me well?), said to be implemented over the next fifty years or so because of the cost. If I recall, the argument is as much about reducing fatalities on the road because of the poor legibility of letter shapes designed by highways engineers.
I've seen this same sign system in Malaysia and Brazil, and it is used in Saudi Arabia, Canada, South Africa, The Netherlands amongst other places. I'm assuming that yet to be factored in to the implications of changing the US system, is the cost to other countries, should they follow suit.
As an aside, the implications for this will make for a valuable collaborative research project between design, economics and engineering, across institutions, in the respective countries.
In future I'll temper my use of irony in suggesting such matters are trivial. Let's hope more typographic and graphic designers will be willing to share on the list examples of concrete practice. I've probably crammed too much into this one post, but I've taken your comments as an invitation to say more.
Regards, Robert.
BAINES, P. 1999. A design (to sign roads by). Eye: the international review of graphic design, 9, 26–36.
TOMRLEY, C. G. 1950. Official lettering gives a lead. Design, 12–14.
MOLLERUP, P. 2005. Wayshowing: a guide to environmental signage principles & practices, Baden, Lars M*ller Publishers.
On 13 Apr 2011, at 06:01, Ken Friedman wrote:
--snip--
I wouldn't label this as "trivializing," but rather as addressing an important issue in concrete
detail.
--snip--
It has been my observation that general members of the public do
not care about professional values or issues such as "kerning," but
they do care and respond to easily readable and comprehensible
information.
--snip--
To me, this is far from trivial. And it is a very "wel come" thread.
Warm wishes,
Ken
--snip--
[Martin Salisbury wrote]
Don't worry about trivialising list discussion, Robert- it's badly in need
of it!
Best wishes to both from sunny Cambridge
--snip--
On 12/04/2011 08:44, "Robert Harland" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
Robin, Andy ... at the risk of trivialising list discussion, I'm reminded of
my formative art student days spent 'drawing' negative space (usually between
the straight steel legs of a stool), wondering what use this would have in my
career. And, being asked to letter space the word T I M E T A B L E with 100mm
capital letters. It was years later when I worked on signage projects that
these exercises helped me understand the relevance of these basic tasks.
Sadly, this took away my ability to appreciate vernacular.
When I heard about the supposedly confusing design of the voting card for the
US elections that contributed to Bush's presidency ... then I started to fully
appreciate the value of knowing about typographic design from an aesthetic,
practical and political perspective.
--snip--
On 8 Apr 2011, at 16:31, Andrew Jackson wrote:
Surely this is part of the charm of the vernacular? I love going to
Switzerland, where I teach occasionally, but sometimes it's a relief to get
back to some good old British visual disorder.
--snip--
[Robin Hodge wrote]
I sit in a cafe most mornings looking on horrified at the Welcome sign on
the door. Kerning is totally wrong - it says Wel come, but only I and a few
of my typographical knowledgable students have noticed.It<http://noticed.It> kills me. Do the
owners care? No? Do the majority of patrons care? No.
--snip--
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