Thanks Keith
I feel sure that Karel van der Waarde has also mentioned the reference to US road signs in his previous posts. I recalled it from what I remember was a previous reference by Ken to a New York Times article by Joshua Yaffa. Anyhow, here's the reference again: http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/12/magazine/12fonts-t.html
Thanks also for the comment about 'peel off'. I wonder if this is an interesting example of how what might be called graphic design defining properties, in differing configurational patterns, contribute to the road user experience and our sense that we are not where we normally are. In your case, Victoria, not NSW. In my example, England, not France.
Regards, Robert
On 13 Apr 2011, at 11:38, Keith Russell wrote:
> not sure who mentioned the proposed changes to street signs in the US - but I recall the idea of using Initial caps with lower case was to account for the ageing population (I saw this on PBS Newshour).
>
> I'd add to the cultural aspects you talk about such things as road design where the design has communication features that indicate (or fail to) such things as proximity of sign to event (how far from a turn-off is the sign that implicates an upcoming turn off) and, how long the peel-off to the exit lane is by way of an introduction to the event of peeling off. I notice, as a person from NSW in Australia that when I enter Victoria, their signs and exit lane introductions are placed differently such that I have trouble navigating exit lanes - I predict that the introduction will be much longer and more gradual, especially on 110kph multi-lane freeways.
>
> cheers
>
> keith russell
> OZ newcastle
>
>
>
>>>> Robert Harland <[log in to unmask]> 13/04/11 6:54 PM >>>
> Thanks Ken for your encouraging remarks.
>
> -snip-
> I'm wondering to what extent this contributes to understanding of our own sense of place, national identity, and well-being. For example, when I drive out of the Port of Dover in the UK from holidaying in France, I feel good that I'm back on familiar territory again and not far from home. In part, the motorway signs 'tell' me this by doing more than identifying motorway. Might this extend into the realm of how typographic design, and the wider aspects of graphic design, 'tell' us more than the fact we have crossed a national boundary? Any further examples of this from list members welcome.
>
> - snip -
> As you suggest, the issues are far from trivial. At an international level, for example, the implications are potentially massive for the changes to the road network signage in the US (first brought to my attention on this list - possibly by Ken if my memory serves me well?), said to be implemented over the next fifty years or so because of the cost. If I recall, the argument is as much about reducing fatalities on the road because of the poor legibility of letter shapes designed by highways engineers.
>
> I've seen this same sign system in Malaysia and Brazil, and it is used in Saudi Arabia, Canada, South Africa, The Netherlands amongst other places. I'm assuming that yet to be factored in to the implications of changing the US system, is the cost to other countries, should they follow suit.
>
> As an aside, the implications for this will make for a valuable collaborative research project between design, economics and engineering, across institutions, in the respective countries.
> -snip-
>
>
> On 13 Apr 2011, at 06:01, Ken Friedman wrote:
>
> --snip--
>
> I wouldn't label this as "trivializing," but rather as addressing an important issue in concrete
> detail.
>
> --snip--
>
> It has been my observation that general members of the public do
> not care about professional values or issues such as "kerning," but
> they do care and respond to easily readable and comprehensible
> information.
>
> --snip--
>
> To me, this is far from trivial. And it is a very "wel come" thread.
>
> Warm wishes,
>
> Ken
>
>
> --snip--
>
> [Martin Salisbury wrote]
>
> Don't worry about trivialising list discussion, Robert- it's badly in need
> of it!
>
> Best wishes to both from sunny Cambridge
>
> --snip--
>
> On 12/04/2011 08:44, "Robert Harland" <[log in to unmask]<mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> Robin, Andy ... at the risk of trivialising list discussion, I'm reminded of
> my formative art student days spent 'drawing' negative space (usually between
> the straight steel legs of a stool), wondering what use this would have in my
> career. And, being asked to letter space the word T I M E T A B L E with 100mm
> capital letters. It was years later when I worked on signage projects that
> these exercises helped me understand the relevance of these basic tasks.
>
> Sadly, this took away my ability to appreciate vernacular.
>
> When I heard about the supposedly confusing design of the voting card for the
> US elections that contributed to Bush's presidency ... then I started to fully
> appreciate the value of knowing about typographic design from an aesthetic,
> practical and political perspective.
>
> --snip--
>
> On 8 Apr 2011, at 16:31, Andrew Jackson wrote:
>
> Surely this is part of the charm of the vernacular? I love going to
> Switzerland, where I teach occasionally, but sometimes it's a relief to get
> back to some good old British visual disorder.
>
> --snip--
>
> [Robin Hodge wrote]
>
> I sit in a cafe most mornings looking on horrified at the Welcome sign on
> the door. Kerning is totally wrong - it says Wel come, but only I and a few
> of my typographical knowledgable students have noticed.It<http://noticed.It> kills me. Do the
> owners care? No? Do the majority of patrons care? No.
>
> --snip--
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