medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Ad hominem again. You give one reading of what is happening. Fine. The fact is, however, that the alternative reading has been glaringly absent from mainstream discussion and, on the off chance that it might actually have significant truth to it, it deserves to be aired and discussed, not dismissed by labeling it as "neo-con." You'll never know whose reading is most accurate if you simply dismiss one side ad hominem. We are forbidden, in polite society, to even raise the possiblity that there is a religious component at the heart of Islam-fascism. Of course many other factors are involved. But your response is reductionistic--denying religion as a central factor, reducing it to non-religious factors. We were taught in our formation as scholars to consider all possible explanations. To exclude one major category on the basis that it is advanced by people of one political persuasion (which, incidentally is patently false, which makes your attempt to dismiss on that basis, doubly uncritical.).
It's worse than that. Responses such as yours, common in the academy, have intimidated those who harbor the suspicion that there's more to Islamo-fascism than poverty and social factors, into silence. And the strategy of CAIR and other Islamo-fascist front organizations is to intimidate--anyone who suggests anything negative about Islam is shouted down, run out of his classroom, taken to court etc.--at least that is the way it's being done in the US and I assume it's not too different in the UK and the Continent.
When you attempt to dismiss the issue with an ad hominem labeling, in a small way you join the attempt to intimidate and silence one side of the discourse. This is the 3-ton elephant in the living room and it's about time it's presence is acknowledged.
Does it belong on this list? Well, do you not wish that in 1934 academics in Germany had permitted a real honest discussion of the threat posed by the secular religion of National Socialism to take place instead of sticking their heads in the sand?
At the very least it is a valuable exercise in revealing how quickly we forget all our training in making arguments--how we use ad hominemn arguments on political-cultural issues of this sort that we would never permit ourselves to use in a scholarly article--or, would we?
And yes, I for one do think there are immense parallels but not just the ones Richard Landes may have in mind. I'm thinking of how, since the Enlightenment rehabilitation of Islam in order to club Christianity with it, scholars have whitewashed the immense barbarity of the initial Muslim conquests, pointed again and again to the alleged use of the sword to convert to Christianity, and ignored the simple fact that Islam would never have expanded beyond the southern Arabian peninsula except by the sword. The contrast with the first four centuries of Christianity is immense and almost entirely ignoredd by scholars because it's not polite to mention it. Current events from Indonesia (beheading schoolgirls) to the Sudan to Nigeria to you name it could be helpful in understanding what happened in the 7th century. It's ugly but ignoring it doesn't make it beautiful.
Dennis Martin
>>> [log in to unmask] 11/07/05 3:40 AM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Ok, since the list moderator hasn't come down on us yet, I'll expand my
original comment. With respect to historical methodology, it appears to me
to be ahistorical to draw such simplistic comparisons between then and now.
There is no evidence to suggest that the current rioting is a 'muslim
thing', and I suspect that attempts to cast it as such are to bring it in
line with an American (neo-con if you like) agenda which continues to seek
to justify the invasion of Iraq as a war on terror. Such evidence as is
emerging would very much suggest that the rioting is an 'underclass thing'.
Of the first five arraignments of youths before the courts this weekend,
three were white and two north African. Doubtless the white;non-white ratio
will shift considerably in the final count, but in the end I think it'll be
race and class that are the dominant issues. Of course, the more the
establishment attempts to put religion and terror into the mix, the more
likely this is to become a self-fulfilling agenda (as it has in Iraq).
Laura
----- Original Message -----
From: "Laura Jacobus" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: 06 November 2005 21:53
Subject: Re: politically incorrect observations
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> It is inflammatory- not to mention ridiculous- to even draw such a
> comparison. Not a subject for this list, I'd say (beating the
> administrator to it for once?)
>
> Laura
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Richard Landes" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: 06 November 2005 21:01
> Subject: politically incorrect observations
>
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>>
>> a piece discussing the links btw current rioting in paris and the
>> medieval war btw xnty and islam.
>> any thoughts from medievalists?
>> http://www.suntimes.com/output/steyn/cst-edt-steyn06.html
>> r
>>
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