The site that was part of the experiment made the same boast.

George.

-----Original Message-----
From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of sally
jones
Sent: 29 April 2005 00:11
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Response to Reddy


But the site boasting 'undetectable cheating' (www.elizabethhall.com)
was not part of the experiment.



>From: George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Plagiarism <[log in to unmask]>,
George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2005 11:40:28 +0100
>
>But as we know from Oppenheim's experiment, the writers of these
essays >sometimes plagiarise. > >George. > >-----Original
Message-----
>From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
sally >jones
>Sent: 26 April 2005 23:27
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>
>
>George
>
>No, I did mean 'plagiarism proof'. The cheat sites guarantee the
work is >original and thus if the work was plagiarised would open
themselves up >to lawsuits. > >Sally >
>>From: George MacDonald Ross
<[log in to unmask]>
>>Reply-To: Plagiarism
<[log in to unmask]>,
>George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>>Date: Tue, 26 Apr 2005 11:57:28 +0100
>>
>>Sally,
>>
>>Do you mean 'detection' proof in the last sentence? If so,
one of >the >solutions is to viva students on their assessed
work. > >>George. > >-----Original
Message-----
>>From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of >sally >jones
>>Sent: 24 April 2005 20:45
>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>>
>>
>>George
>>
>>I am interested in making assessments 'cheat-proof' which
would >include >'plagiarism'. Hiring a cheat site makes it
plagiarism proof >if the >person does a good job. >
>Sally >
>>>From: George MacDonald Ross
><[log in to unmask]>
>>>Reply-To: Plagiarism
><[log in to unmask]>,
>>George MacDonald Ross
<[log in to unmask]>
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>>>Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:00 +0100
>>> >>>Sally,
>>> >>>I think we are edging
towards agreement. Exams can be >designed >better
>than they have been in the past. >Nevertheless, there are
many >>alternative ways of assessing >students
which can be made more or >less >plagiarism-proof,
>and we shouldn't abandon innovative methods >of
>assessment >simply because of a panic about plagiarism.
> >>George. >>
>-----Original Message-----
>>>From: Plagiarism
[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On
>Behalf Of >sally >jones
>>>Sent: 24 April 2005 16:21
>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>>> >>>
>>>George >>>
>>>Exams that test problem-solving skills would
test >independent >thinking. >Where the exam is
based on a case >study approach, perhaps >with a
>pre-issued case study, >students would be encouraged to
>develop themes. > >>They would, of
course, be harder to mark than >exams testing >memory
>skills, but you certainly would not be able to >pay
>someone to sit the >exam for you - hopefully!
> >>Sally >
>>>>From: George MacDonald Ross
>><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>Reply-To: Plagiarism
>><[log in to unmask]>,
>>>George MacDonald Ross
><[log in to unmask]>
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>>>>Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:09:49
+0100
>>>>
>>>Sally,
>>>>
>>>Exams aren't >plagiarism-proof,
because some students have >good >enough
>>memories to regurgitate what they have learned
>from >sources >other than >their
own thinking (including >what >they have been taught
>by their >teachers - >and I tell my
>students that I am a secondary >source like any
>>other). >>
>Exams are a useful form >of >assessment
where >memorisation of facts is at >>a premium,
but for most >other >purposes they fail >to reward
the >independent thinking skills >>we
are >trying to develop in our students, >and they
encourage >>>students to regard education as
nothing more than >>cramming >for
>exams. It's crazy to undo all the >valuable work of the
last >>few >decades in >devising
more valid forms of assessment, >simply because
>>>of a panic about cheating. I don't use
exams >at >all, and because of >the
>way I teach and set my >>assignments,
plagiarism is the least of >my >>problems.
My >biggest problem is to wean students from >the exam
>>mentality, >and to get them to think
for >themselves. > >George.
>>>
>>-----Original Message-----
>>>>From: Plagiarism
>[mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>On
>>Behalf Of >sally >jones
>>>>Sent: 23 April 2005 19:44
>>>>To: [log in to unmask]
>>>>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>>>>
>>>
>>>>
>>>All you have to do is >make the
qualification 100% by exam. >>
>>>It's really that simple.
> >>(As I >believe Herriot Watt
do
>>>already) > >
> > >> >
>> >
>>From: George >MacDonald Ross
>><[log in to unmask]>
>
>>>Reply-To:
>>>Plagiarism
><[log in to unmask]>,
>>>   George
>>>>MacDonald Ross
><[log in to unmask]>
>>>> >To:
[log in to unmask] >>>>
>Subject: Response to Reddy
>>>> >Date: Fri, 22
Apr 2005 09:55:17 >+0100 >>
>> >>
>>I like Mike's account of the student
>presentation. I >don't >think anyone
> > >would
>>object to what he did, unless he >pretended that
the >materials he >> >used were
his own. From what >>Mike says, he put a >lot of
his own >thinking >>
>into the >>presentation.
> >> >
>As for Sally's >idea, it is >similar to
>one I had myself a couple of >years
>>> >ago (even though I
>didn't get round >to doing it at >the time). This
was > >to write >a >short
guide for >students on 'How to Plagiarise
>>Successfully'. >
>>>The
>subtext would be that it's less trouble and far more
>rewarding >>to >do >
>the work yourself. >>
>> > >I also agree
>>that it's a zero sum game for >teachers and
students to >> >compete
>with each other >for ever >more sophisticated
methods of cheating > >>
>>>and detection. If courses and assessments
are properly >>>designed, and >the
> >>learning culture is >right,
the question >of >cheating should arise only
>in >>
>>exceptional circumstances.
>> >
>>> >George. >
> >>
>>>>********************************
****************
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PLAGIARISM.html
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