medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
"Ms B.M. Cook" <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>...Stephen Harding - (and my problem with this is that I thought the -ING
ending meant 'son of' as in the place name 'Wilmington' = 'the fortified
dwelling of the sons of William' which would make Harding a patronymic.)
Dear Brenda,
yeahbut, the name, cognomen, patronym (or whatever) wasn't "Harding" --that's
the modern Englishing of whatever the original Latin was, as recorded only in
surviving texts & charters.
>Geoffrey Botterel I before 1056 - 24 Aug 1091 or 3.
>Geoffrey Botterel II died 1148
>Geoffrey Botterel III died 1205
the naming pattern here would seem to indicate a practice almost
universal among the Chartrain (and, perhaps, most other regions)
nobility, i.e., choosing the same name(s) in alternate generations from the
_namengut_ available to the family. presumably there were guys in the
interstices who carred other (or one other) name. did they carry "Botterel"
also? *that*, it seems to me is what would distinguish something getting
pretty close to a family name from a simple (even if re-used) _cognomen_ which
functioned as a "nickname."
>GEOFFREY MARTEL OF ANJOU x 4 or 5
Geoffrey Martel I 938-987/8
Geoffrey Martel II 1000 - 1060
Geoffrey Martel III deposed 1067 (aka Geoffrey the Bearded ?)
Geoffrey Martel IV died 1106
>as if the said chronicler cannot conceive of a Geoffrey of Anjou who is not a
Geoffrey-Martel.
again, though, what cognomen did the guys in the interstices carry (if any)?
>Other Christian names which are equally regularly used in these families
(Fulk, Stephen, Henry, &c to not seem to have attracted this permanent
epithet or surname or whatever.
then we seem to be dealing with some sort of phenomenon which falls outside of
the modern catagories of "family" names and "nicknames."
the use of the same name in alternate generations --the child being named
after his grandfather-- would seem to have had the effect of invoking the
memory of the grandfather (duh), and the cognomen *might* have been part of
that intended invocation. a thought.
>I offer no explanation: I have just recorded the phenomenon.
lots of literature on naming practices, almost all of which i am ignorant of.
>Does Botterel refer to capacity for drink ??????
obviously. in English at least. what's the latin?
best from here,
christopher
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