Hello Brent - Just to make one point clear from my own position and related to
your own words of : " I just wonder what the goal of the criticism is.." ( see
below)

>From my position there is a need to have these kinds of debates all the time and
then a kind of web-site might emerge through an already critical hermeneutic.
That is i support a web-site that becomes through participation and is
action-centred.

By saying this i do NOT slander the work of James and Roger. In fact I do support
this work as "A New International" perspective.

Any "goal" ( I do mean this word here in the sense of a "jail" !!!) will become
OK but when it really becomes it might best be through a kind of "being-worked".

I do not want to see yet another September 11th.

War is over - happy Xmas - but Lennon was shot down dead.

I do not support that in any way. There is no "catch 22" in this.

The power of the web-sites must be reflexive I think.

What is the "what" that we think we do, really ?

Just as Helsinki is more "wired" than the USA and just as "nobody" clicks into
the internet pages ( unless they are in some places "different") where the first
page is in Sami, and then in Russian and then in Norwegian and only then in
English so too it becomes strange to ask why not !! Such pages exist.

This is not any personal critique of American folk that work in their own ways.
This is a critique of "America Online" and this critique is made in hope for no
more war and a Sept 11th ( In God We Tru$t) really rembered.

I prefer our "outdoors" to be places of peace not war.

As Xmas nears we might recall that such is a time of hope born of suffering and
who knows when the Easter time might really come along ?

In solidarity ( not teamwork) I say thanks to James and Roger and all

best wishes
steve bowles

"Brent J. Bell" wrote:

> AEE
>
> Even if the organization is a joke to many, I do fully support its efforts
> to attempt to be many things to many people.  In reality it is a small
> group of people which values both the non-outdoor and non-American
> perspectives, but may not have the resources to do much more than attempt
> to communicate that by name.  It is a weak structure maybe, but it is
> intended as a point of inclusion, not an insult--even if it in name only.
>
> My need is to have a community of inquiry in which to talk with others
> about research, program development, and further my growth.  I look forward
> to seeing the organization that can be all things to all of us (and that
> folks will be able to afford).  As someone who works at supporting AEE, I
> hope the criticism leads to something beneficial.
>
> Realistically, AEE depends upon the international conference for a major
> part of the budget.  People have argued for years about having conferences
> around the world, but fear the budget loss in lack of support and
> attendance.  It seems to be a catch 22.  Maybe more forethought should have
> gone into the name, but I know it was a point of trying to be inclusive,
> not trying to claim the world.  If it makes you feel better--go ahead and
> frame the organization in this manner.  I just wonder what the goal of the
> criticism is... to embarrass us into not supporting AEE, to force AEE to
> become more international, to see more non-outdoor workshops,.... I can
> submit to you that these perspectives are well represented and continually
> discussed, yet it is structurally complicated to suddenly have a conference
> full of service learning folks, or international folks.
>
> Brent Bell
>
> At 01:45 PM 12/14/2001, you wrote:
> >As a practioner of adventure education and as a university-based researcher,
> >I am immensely grateful for the resources that James and Roger make
> >available through the web.  Of course they will be biased in some way--all
> >of our work is.  Just like I don't get all my news from the New York Times,
> >their web sites are good starting places, but of course they don't tell the
> >whole story--who does?  What can?  My university system doesn't subscribe
> >even subscribe to JEE, much less any international journals in experiential
> >education.
> >
> >AEE is a misnomer, and the conference is hardly international--although to
> >say it is not international at all is to make invisible the dozen or so
> >international folks at this year's conference who came from outside of
> >America.  As far as I can tell, the more appropriate name for what happens
> >in the organization known as AEE is the American Association of Adventure
> >(or Outdoor) Education.  Some of my colleagues who focus on service
> >learning, internships, etc.--where learning is also situated or contextual
> >like it is in adventure education--think that AEE is a joke because of its
> >inappropriate name.
> >
> >Kara
> >
> >
> >----- Original Message -----
> >From: "Roger Greenaway" <[log in to unmask]>
> >To: <[log in to unmask]>
> >Sent: Friday, December 14, 2001 7:42 AM
> >Subject: Friendly Criticism
> >
> >
> > > Thank you James for all the work you are doing to make research
> > > more accessible.
> > >
> > > Thank you Steve for pointing out the kinds of questions that
> > > researchers should continually ask about how and why such
> > > information is put together.
> > >
> > > James is an Australian (I think) whose favourite research journal
> > > is British-based with an international flavour (JAEOL) and who is
> > > working in the USA. Unsurprisingly, his English language internet
> > > searches come up with a lot of USA material. There is also lots
> > > of
> > > relevant research in other languages. There is also lots of
> > > relevant research that is not accessible via the internet.
> > >
> > > How does James, how do I, how do we go about making the best use
> > > of the internet to support the interests of people with research
> > > interests in our field?
> > >
> > > Let's not throw sand at each other or bury our heads in it or
> > > sink in it. There are many better and more constructive things to
> > > do with sand. What, how and why we construct things are important
> > > questions to ask but lets do so in a spirit of friendly
> > > criticism.
> > >
> > > Roger Greenaway
> > >
> > > (just off to play in the sand ...)
> > >