Ingegerd Holand wrote:
>……I must admit that it was a long time ago that I read 'Kristin
Lavransdatter', and I hadn't thought of re-reading it for this purpose.
Been a long time for me, too, Ingegerd.
Don't forget her "Master of Hestviken", a quadrilogy (rather than a trilogy)
which I recall as her masterpiece (a little harder to find in a used context
than "Kristin", which was quite popular in this country at least, where it was
republished several times for the BOMC). "Hestviken" centers around a fierce
inter-family blood feud which spans generations: by the fourth book things are
quite intricately involved, to say the least, rather like a nordic interlace
ornament.
A book of considerable power, if memory serves.
I drag copies of both to Kalamazoo every year out of force of habit, but
rarely sell one to the "scholars" who frequently look down their noses at mere
"fiction". A moment of comic relief for me.
>...a geologist friend of mine in Norway also used Undset's landscape
descriptions ....or her own description of the medieval landscape along the
pilgrim trail....published a couple of years ago....
In Norwegian, I suppose, alas?
As for your query re Mary, weaving/spinning, the "seamless robe" and
pagan goddesses:
> I have also been fascinated by the discussion of 'the seamless robe' on the
list, as this, as far as I can make out, is supposed to have been woven by the
Virgin Mary. Weaving and spinning are among the traits that Davidson claims
were transferred to Mary from the pagan goddesses, where they are usually
associated with destiny. Is there any such association with 'the seamless
robe'?
I don't know the textual origin of the idea that the robe (of Christ) or
"voile" (of Mary at Chartres, say) was woven by the Virgin Herself, but would
be interested to hear of it from some learned someone on the list.
And, though I've not seen Davidson's work, I'm afraid I've got to take issue
on a couple of points with Tom Izbicki's coment:
>I would like to question the validity of Davidson's reading of this.
Mary is as often, if not more, depicted reading, rather than doing spinning or
weaving, in pictures I have seen of the Annunciation. Nor
have I ever seen a suggestion that Mary weaves destinies. Surely such
activities were associated with women and - by transference - with some
godesses. Nor with all of them.
Not my field, Tom, but I believe that the iconography of the Virgin of
the Annunciation as a "Spinner" (i.e., with a distaff; I know of *no* instance
of Her actually weaving) was not at all uncommon in, particularly, Byzantine
art and, I would suppose (in near complete ignorance), *may* have been of
greater antiquity--and popularlity-- than that of the "Reading" Virgin (which
has always seemed a bit of a strange anachronism to me).
As for the question of the "transferrance" from pagan to Christian
practices/attributes (which ties into other strings--"sacred"
wells/sites, saints' attributes, whatever--on this list over many weeks)
I have to say that I really don't understand what the question is.
Surely not that the introduction of Christianity into any given region
represented some sort of psycho-religious "clean sweep", destroying completely
ancient, venerable and universally-held popular beliefs and practices--which
were as much imbedded in the very lanscape as in the consciousnesses of its
transitory and ephemeral human occupants??
Rather than such a parochial [ {;~} ] approach, I would--and have
always--prefer to see historical Christianity as the latest (and
certainly not the last) in an (evolving, if you wish) awesome series of
psychic "tools" which human beings (perhaps with a little help from their
friends) have collectively fashioned to understand and interact with what is,
after all, a pretty complex--and not infrequently hostile--universe.
Finally (sorry), re Margaret Cormack's interesting question
>....specific references to myths, folklore, etc. in which pagan deities,
elves, or whatever aid in childbirth....
I'll go out on (yet another) limb and suggest *my* favorite source for
beginning a hunt though the briar patch of ancient "mythology": Robert
Graves' two volume _The Greek Myths_.
Out of Official Favor since it's original publication (not a *single* review
in a scholarly publication which I can find[!])--for reasons to which someone
on this list can perhaps enlighten me--I find it to be a vertible and
inexhaustable mine of *documented* and detailed information.
Granted, considerable interpretation from a particular point of view (e.g.,
his "Goddess" theories which, despite their recent "pop" ularity, deserve to
be seriously considered/modified and do not, in any event, vitiate the overall
usefulness of the work as a sourced reference).
But, nonetheless, as an easily accessable *reference* book, *in English*, I
know nothing that even comes close.
Not that you will find "midwife" in the index, but if you scan through
the whole you should turn up a number of interesting birthdays with attendant
entities.
And, once you do come across--in Graves or elsewhere--the names of the
dieties/spirits in question, his name-based index will work just fine.
Best to all from here,
Christopher
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