Dear Alex (and Ana and Ami and everyone),
While I was aware of the blatant heterosexism in academia (Pinar 1998) and
have often faced it in my extremely short time in it, it is both saddening
and infuriating that people end up being so caught up in their own import.
While I have been a silent spectator, and most of the times do feel like I
have to be super careful of how I present myself (as a brown, queer
educator from the Global South), I have been unable to articulate my voice
because I felt that a) I might sound too naive, b)that I might be
uninformed or offend someone, or c) have to continuously justify my own
inexperience and (Indian) context.
As a space, it has been one which is fraught with anxiety, and if not for
the relevance and the occasional spikes of interest, I might have left it
long ago.
However, the recent voices in this space have me filled with hope, and I do
hope that you, and people who are equally silent, start voicing themselves.
Your paper *is* super interesting for me, and while I, caught up in the
frenzy of conducting classes / protocols for conducting classes online, not
had the time to go through it, it is right here, waiting on my laptop. So
while I may not be "the group," I am in the group. :)
I also echo Ami (and your reassertion of the same) that not all people are
nice, but the Ursula-Paul confrontation has ignited a fissure of this
space, but the fissure is one full of possibilities. Much has been said on
it, and I was silent for the most part, and I think I owe an apology for
not voicing my opinions when the time was ripe, but I will try my best to
not do the same henceforth.
So I thank you all wonderful people, who are nudging this space to be more
safe, more brave.
_______________________________
Pinar, W. F. (1998). Queer Theory in Education. Routledge.
https://doi.org/10.4324/9781410603760
On Mon, Mar 23, 2020 at 7:50 PM Alex Bitterman <
[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Ana (and Ami, and everyone),
>
> As a (gay) male and a 20+ year member of this group, I tend to agree with
> you. I’ve always perceived the group operating as a group of self-important
> old(er) men talking about their work, and whenever ANYONE who isn’t in that
> group pipes in, they seem to be treated with disdain or disregard. I
> monitor the group because often, helpful information is passed along that I
> can, in turn, pass along to my students.
>
> In 20+ years, I have made 3 posts (now 4) to the group. My very first one
> (inviting members to contribute to a new academic journal that I was
> struggling to get off the ground) was met with an IMMEDIATE shut down by
> one of the founding members of the group (and a very ‘big’ name in design
> history) who demanded that I be removed from the list. He then went to the
> lengths to send me an e-mail off list to chastise me and warned me that I
> should never post such “spam” to the group again, despite the fact that he
> posted similar messages frequently.
>
> Just this past week, I sent out a note about my most recently published
> article (about gay neighborhoods) and received a few kind direct replies.
> Though as expected, the post got no traction within the group and
> apparently wasn’t philosophical enough to warrant any kind of
> acknowledgement or discussion by “the group.”
>
> Considering that our world faces one of the most grave crises of our
> lives, I find it perplexing that the majority of posts on this board still
> are stuck in the weeds discussing the finer points of design theory rather
> than discussing the glaring issues at hand (that design practice could
> address).
>
> I agree with Ami, below, not all people are nice (especially, perhaps, in
> academia), but I think it’s high time that we begin to pipe up and speak
> about what is of interest, value, and relevance to us as a broader/larger
> group of design thinkers. We can only do that together and if everyone
> plays an equal part. While I certainly acknowledge and understand your
> frustrations, perhaps now, more than ever, during this crisis, we all must
> endeavor to work as a team, despite our differences and personal
> frustrations?
>
> All best,
>
> Alex Bitterman
>
>
>
>
> > On Mar 22, 2020, at 08:19, Heidi Overhill <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > Dear Ana,
> > I agree that there is bashing on the list, often of women, but I don't
> believe that such bashing is done only by men. I personally was called
> "naive," by a man, for pointing to a philosophical text as something
> relevant for design. But far more hurtful comments came from a woman, who
> decided that what I had meant as a constructive suggestion was in fact a
> personal attack on her, and responded in kind.
> > My conclusions are:
> > 1) nuance does not convey in email2) not all people are nice.
> > If the list sometimes offers interesting tips or news in addition to
> bashing, you should stay on it.
> > For example, thanks to your post, I was able to follow your link and
> find your short film about the dance of "the third old man." For anyone
> developing a media list for these interesting times, I recommend it. Only
> 13 minutes long. Off-list, I will send you something I wrote about
> choreography and museums.
> > Thanks for the film,Heidi
> > On Saturday, March 21, 2020, 06:26:44 p.m. EDT, Ami Skanberg
> Dahlstedt <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> >
> > I support the women of the list, but I never had the time to follow up
> > discussions.
> > However, I leave this list now, tired of seeing my female peers being
> > pushed aside as particularities.
> > I am so tired of the mansplaining, and the unwelcoming tone,
> > the neglect of perspectives that for some of you are made 'exotic' and
> > 'different'.
> >
> > Exhausted by this ignorance.
> > ENOUGH.
> >
> > vänliga hälsningar från, best wishes from
> > Ami Skånberg Dahlstedt
> > Lecturer in dance theory
> > Academy of Music and Drama
> > University of Gothenburg
> > <
> https://medarbetarportalen.gu.se/personalkatalog/person?userId=xskaam&departmentId=086120&languageCode=sv
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > Virusfritt.
> > www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > <#m_-5216961130481242695_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> > Den sön 15 mars 2020 kl 19:32 skrev Ursula Tischner <
> [log in to unmask]
> >> :
> >
> >> Dear all,
> >>
> >> I like to give one more response to this, but honestly, I think this
> >> bilateral discussion between Paul and myself has already taken up too
> much
> >> space in the PhD list and we could move on to more important things…
> >>
> >> First a comment to Francesco Galofaro, who wrote:
> >>
> >>> “Coming to the question, in my opinion the reported discussion is not a
> >> case of "mansplanning". As far as I read, Paul Russel argues his
> position.
> >> His arguments can be wrong, but if the answer is "I have a 40th years
> >> experience in the sector" and "Please read the book I wrote 20 years
> ago",
> >> these can not be considered arguments: frankly speaking, they are a
> plain
> >> form of the fallacy of "arguing from authority" (cf. Jeremy Bentham, The
> >> Book of Fallacies). ….
> >>>
> >>> Caveat: Obviously my position is biased because I read only on the mail
> >> by Paul Russel broadcasted by Ursula Tischner (I have not the whole
> >> conversation). Furthermore, I am a man, I am Italian, and - as I said -
> the
> >> level of conflict on language that politically correctness reached in
> the
> >> Anglo-Saxon environments always puzzles me. Please excuse me if I have
> been
> >> rude.”
> >>>
> >> Well, Francesco, thank you for your comment, but how much value can it
> >> have, if you did not even bother to read through the whole conversation
> but
> >> only refer to what Paul wrote about what I wrote?
> >>
> >> Paul is wrong: I have not insulted him, nor have I accused him of
> >> anything, nor have I claimed anywhere in my posts that I have done
> >> something fantastic new.
> >>
> >> Quick recap:
> >>
> >> My first post was a very short and friendly response to Paul and
> Juergen’s
> >> discussion about “world design responsibility” and “humanity focused
> >> design”. I wrote that it is an interesting discussion and suggested that
> >> they should dive a bit more into the Sustainability Design discussion
> and
> >> literature that started in the early 1990ies because quite a few people
> >> have thought and written and worked on humanitarian and social and
> >> responsible design back then and even before that. I suggested to google
> >> the term and literature because meanwhile there is so much good
> literature
> >> about that out there and I did not have the time to come up with
> >> recommendations.
> >>
> >> Then Paul felt insulted by my proposal “to google” the term and
> literature
> >> and wrote a pretty aggressive response (my perception).
> >>
> >> So, I gave a couple of literature recommendations (Martin Charter’s and
> my
> >> book Sustainable Solutions from 2001 was only one of those, there is
> more)
> >> and explained a bit about how the sustainability design discussion
> emerged
> >> together with the new paradigm of Sustainable Development as defined by
> the
> >> UN. I wrote that with that new paradigm the social, ethical,
> humanitarian
> >> etc. discussion got included in design in addition to ecological and
> >> environmental issues, that had been discussed before under headers like
> >> Ecodesign and Green Design. So in a way you can say, that this was new
> to
> >> the design discussions back then, even though heroes like Papanek had
> >> talked, written and worked on these aspects before that time. And we
> were
> >> quite aware of these heroes and quoted them in our work frequently ;-)
> >>
> >> I recommended that people who join this discussion later should do a
> good
> >> literature research to avoid that they reinvent the wheel.
> >>
> >> In my post to Paul I mentioned experts, I mentioned organizations and
> >> tried to explain that the sustainability design discussion, that started
> >> with the formulation of the new paradigm Sustainable Development by the
> UN,
> >> indeed included all sorts of social, ethical, gender, equality, social
> >> justice and humanitarian aspects.
> >>
> >> Then Paul wrote another pretty aggressive response telling me that I am
> >> wrong, that it is not true that the Sustainable Development Paradigm and
> >> the new Sustainability Design discussions included the focus on the
> social,
> >> ethical, humanity etc. aspects from the beginning on, trying to
> “correct”
> >> what I wrote. His opinion is still that it only started in 2007 with
> Tracy
> >> Bhamra’s and Vicky Lofthouse’ publication Design for Sustainability: A
> >> Practical Approach <
> >> https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/7691164-design-for-sustainability>
> >> I am sure, if Tracy or Vicky were part of this list, they would tell us,
> >> that this perception is not true.
> >>
> >> So again, I gave some more links to the proper definition of Sustainable
> >> Development and the Agenda 21, gave some more evidence that indeed the
> >> aspects, Paul wants to see covered, were actually part of the
> Sustainable
> >> Development paradigm and thus discussions around Design for
> Sustainability
> >> early on.
> >>
> >> In addition to what I wrote before I can give you even more evidence, if
> >> you like, e.g.
> >>
> >> Prof. Han Brezet started at TU Delft as Professor in sustainable
> >> product design in 1992 and established the Design for Sustainability
> >> program, where among other subjects they also focused on design for the
> >> base of the pyramid and emerging markets.
> >> The Design Council London has started their RED projects in 1997.
> >> RED was a 'do tank' that developed innovative thinking and practice on
> >> social and economic problems through design innovation. They did
> projects
> >> focusing on preventing ill-health, managing chronic illnesses, reducing
> >> energy use at home, strengthening citizenship, reducing re-offending by
> >> prisoners, and improving learning at school etc.
> >> Design Academy Eindhoven (where I was professor for Ecodesign from
> >> 2002 to 2009) established a master program called “Man & Humanity” in
> 2002
> >> that I had the pleasure to be the head of together with Birgitta de Voss
> >> for a couple of years. And as the name says, we were very much focusing
> and
> >> working on the socio-cultural, ethical and humanitarian aspects of
> design
> >> alongside with the environmental and economic.
> >>
> >> I could go on, but how much evidence do you need to convince somebody,
> who
> >> does not want to be convinced?
> >>
> >> I can give all of this evidence because I had the great pleasure to be
> >> part of a wonderful group of designers (and other professionals) that
> had
> >> shared these discussions and activities from the early 1990ies on. So
> >> obviously I know this for sure, because it is my authentic experience.
> >> There is no element of authoritarian power play, I just liked to share
> this
> >> experience with the PhD group.
> >>
> >> But still, Paul does not believe it and insists on telling me that he is
> >> right and I am / my experience is wrong, really?
> >>
> >> The Merriam-Webster definition of Mansplaining is as follows:
> >> “Mansplaining is, at its core, a very specific thing. It's what occurs
> when
> >> a man talks condescendingly to someone (especially a woman) about
> something
> >> he has incomplete knowledge of, with the mistaken assumption that he
> knows
> >> more about it than the person he's talking to does.”
> >>
> >> And I think this is exactly what Paul did and obviously still does. In a
> >> private mail to me, Paul even admitted that he has a good overview about
> >> the literature in Design for Development and the related UN
> documentation
> >> and approach to Humanitarian Development, but not that much knowledge in
> >> the sustainable design literature. But still he likes to tell me that he
> >> knows better???
> >>
> >> But it is ok. Let’s move on.
> >>
> >> Sorry for the long post. And a big thank you to Britta, Veronica and
> >> Milena for their supporting messages.
> >>
> >> All the best
> >>
> >> Ursula Tischner
> >>
> >> -----------------------------------------------------------------
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> >
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > Virusfritt.
> > www.avast.com
> > <
> https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email&utm_source=link&utm_campaign=sig-email&utm_content=webmail
> >
> > <#m_-5216961130481242695_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
> >
> >
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--
Best,
Shemal
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