Kari-Hans et al,
I'm still trying to adhere to the 2-posts-per-thread guideline that kind of
emerged a while back, so this will very probably be my last post on this
one. (This I write just in case my subsequent silence is misinterpreted as
disinterest, sanctimonious disapproval, or some other negative stance.)
It's not a question of increasing sensitivity *instead* (Kari-Hans's word)
of expecting evidence.
We really need to do *both* - expect evidence *and* increase empathy (or
maintain it in the case of those who've been empathic towards others all
along).
Insofar as a discussion turning into a trial - it *is* a trial, but a trial
of ideas not people. This is one important reason for having ground rules
for meaningful discussions, and why both empathy & evidence must co-exist.
\V/_ /fas
*Prof. Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.*
Email: [log in to unmask]
Web: http://deseng.ryerson.ca/~fil/
ORCID: 0000-0002-3689-5112 <http://orcid.org/0000-0002-3689-5112>
"Time flies like an arrow. Fruit flies like a banana."
On 3 July 2016 at 14:32, Kommonen Kari-Hans <[log in to unmask]>
wrote:
> Dear Ursula, and others,
>
> I think Ursula is right.
>
> The discussions would benefit from more sensitivity towards different
> stances and their holders.
>
> Maybe it is more helpful to talk about how we can discuss matters and how
> this space can be welcoming and fruitful to all, even if they disagree,
> rather than try to analyze further who did what and in what way this time.
> While evidence would be interesting and helpful for those of us who do not
> understand, it can also turn into the direction of a trial, which is
> divisive and unproductive.
>
> What if we instead try to increase our sensitivity significantly towards
> understanding that we have many different bases for our positions? I at
> least would welcome the chance to increase my own understanding of these
> bases and positions, rather than losing them if their holders feel they
> must be taken somewhere else.
>
> I would also hope that all list members could simply try to abstain from
> making negative statements about the other posters, and strive to find
> other, more communicative means to express their points of view and bring
> their concerns to our attention.
>
> cheers, Kari-Hans
>
> -------
> > On 3 Jul 2016, at 19:32, Ursula Tischner <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
> >
> > dear all
> > I have read some of the many posts about this issue without commenting.
> > but now I think this is too much.
> >
> > this list needs a bit of couple therapy .., urgently
> >
> > the basic principle of this is that everybody has their own 'truth'
> which should be accepted by the others and there should be no 'winners' or
> "losers" but the attermpt to understand and accept the other's truth and
> attempts to deal with it in a constructive, positive and emphatic way
> >
> > if Luiza and other women feel that men in this list are unfair against
> them and not treating women as equals (as is unfortunately still a wide
> spread phenomenon even in the design profession) then this is their truth.
> >
> > and if men involved in this feel misjudged and falsely accused by that,
> this is their truth.
> >
> > now, even though it is understandable that some may react in a very
> childish way in light of such accusations this is not a constructive, grown
> up and emphatic reaction. and gets nobody nowhere
> >
> > so can the guys in this list please accept that this issue might be a
> delicate one and be extra careful how they deal with it?
> > and maybe the women could accept that the guys often are not even aware
> of what they are doing and mostly do not mean to exclude women or put them
> down but that is just the behavior they learned?
> >
> > they might need some extra careful and friendly explanation to help them
> understand better.
> >
> > it would be so good to get (back) to a positive constructive and
> friendly discussion
> >
> > thank you all
> >
> > Ursula Tischner
> > Econcept
> > agency for sustainable design
> > Cologne Germany
>
>
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