medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Kurt Sherry <[log in to unmask]>
[Cecilia's original]
"...Raymond of Aguilier...tells me that, upon capturing Jerusalem (on July
15), that 'in hac die cantavimus officium de Resurrectione, quia in hac die
ille qui sua virtute a mortuis resurrexit, per gratiam suam nos
resuscitavit.'"
[me]
>>i see now that "cantavimus" may be present tense rather than past (viday
soupra, re >>the Latiniacal challenged), but the "in hac die" would seem to
mean that they >>"chanted" the office on that day, i.e., July 15.
>>since this office is known to have existed *after* this date it therefore
seems to me that what we may be looking at here, in Ray's testimony, is in
fact the *institution* of this office --the first [perhaps ad hoc] appearance
of it.
[Kurt]
> I am certainly among the Latiniacally Challenged, but the impression I have
is that the *office* (whatever that actually may mean)
woa!
an "office" is, well, an "office," is it not?
something that cantavimus in a church, in a respectful manner?
what else could it mean?
>already existed, but what Ray instituted was the use of it to commemorate the
capture of Jerusalem and the Holy Sepulcher.
i suppose either interpretation *could* be correct --the "office" in question
*could* have existed before 15 July, 1099, or Ray might have witnessed the
first exercise [i assume that one "exercises" an "office"] of it.
or is there some Granularity in the interpretation of the phrase which begins
"quia in hac die..." which i am missing.
i assume that the "hac die" there is not 15 July but rather the Day of the
Ressurection, right??
[i love that term "granularity," btw --the foreign students i tutor in English
have learned it from the hapless profs who are "teaching" them all sorts of
Pseudo-Scientific Methodologies to analyze such subjects as Journalism and
Education and have kindly infected me with it, and i happily pass the mental
virus of it on to the List, Free, Gratis and Por Nada.]
> BTW - I've never heard of a mare's nest before, but am greatly edified
(having found a few over the years; now if I could just devote my life to
finding Sasquatch).
yes, well, i'm happy to dispel Ignorance wherever i find it, Kurt and i have
certainly found the Concept to be of great personal use to me many times over
the decades.
however, you should not count on wasting your efforts on Sasquatch --i found
her many years ago and you haven't even lost your Amateur Standing on that
front, i assure you.
c
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