medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Paul Chandler <[log in to unmask]>
> John, Christopher: In the original sentence only partly quoted below, I
simply said that the crusader clergy were very conscious of the association
of the Resurrection with the Holy Sepulchre *as witnessed by* post-1099
liturgical developments, of which I gave a couple of examples. -- Paul
among the Hopelessly Challenged --Liturgically, Latiniacly and even
Orthographically-- the confusion grows like Topsy.
my impression from reading Cicilia's original post
"I am reading Raymond of Aguiliers, who tells me that, upon capturing
Jerusalem (on July 15), that 'in hac die cantavimus officium de Resurrectione,
quia in hac die ille qui sua virtute a mortuis resurrexit, per gratiam suam
nos resuscitavit.'
was that Ray is recording that on July 15 (1099?), upon capturing Jerusalem,
the victorious Army of the Lord "[we] chanted the office of the Resurrection"
(presumably in the church of the Holy Sepulcher.
i see now that "cantavimus" may be present tense rather than past (viday
soupra, re the Latiniacal challenged), but the "in hac die" would seem to mean
that they "chanted" the office on that day, i.e., July 15.
since this office is known to have existed *after* this date it therefore
seems to me that what we may be looking at here, in Ray's testimony, is in
fact the *institution* of this office --the first [perhaps ad hoc] appearance
of it.
am i constructing a quite wonderful Mare's Nest or not?
c
p.s. since the Concept is such a useful and essential one for all those who
would engage themselves in various sorts of Scholardly Pursuits, i herewith
give its meaning.
< OED
MARE'S NEST:
1. Originally in to have found (also spied) a mare's nest: to imagine that one
has discovered something wonderful, which in fact does not exist. Hence: an
illusory discovery, esp. one that is much vaunted and betrays foolish
credulity.
1625 J. Fletcher Bonduca v. ii, in F. Beaumont & J. Fletcher Comedies &
Trag. (1647) sig. Iiii2/2, Why dost thou laugh? what Mares nest hast thou
found?
1738 Swift Compl. Coll. Genteel Conversat. 51 You have found a Mare's
Nest.
1824 C. Grey Let. 1 Aug. in Heber Lett. (1950) x. 318, I believe myself to
have discovered in Horace Walpole the real Junius and‥to have established it
almost beyond dispute. I may have found a mare's nest.
1840 T. Hood Up Rhine Pref. p. iii, Such Critics as are fond of climbing
up a Mât de Cocagne for a Mare's Nest at the top.
1930 New Statesman 27 Dec. 361/2, I do not think any literary pastime
leaves one with so dry and discouraging a sensation as the examination of
mares'-nests.
2. An untidy or confused mess; a muddle; a misconception.
1837 Fraser's Mag. 16 532 The mares'-nests of its discovery were amply
suited by the flea-bittenness of its style.
> On 3 April 2012 00:33, John Briggs <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > On 02/04/2012 15:03, Christopher Crockett wrote:
> >
> >> From: Paul
Chandler<paul.anthony.**[log in to unmask]<[log in to unmask]>
> >> >
> >>
> >>>
> >>> ....commemoration of the Resurrection every day through the year, and an
additional Solemn Commemoration of the Resurrection on the last Sunday of the
year (i.e., the Sunday before Advent).
>>> so, if Cicilia's reference is to a commemoration which occurred on 15
July, it obviously is not the "Solemn" one which is in December, right?
>>> or are the Hapless Liturgically Challenged insufficiently Confused, even
yet?
>> Rather more of a problem is that we are using liturgy developed after the
event in an effort to determine what actually happened on the day.
>> We need to establish whether there was a pre-existing liturgy for the
"Iter Sepulchri" which culminated in an "office of the Resurrection" at the
Holy Sepulchre itself.
>> John Briggs
> >
> >
> >
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>
> --
> Paul Chandler, O.Carm.
> Holy Spirit Seminary | PO Box 18 (487 Earnshaw Road) | Banyo Qld 4014
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