Well done, Louise, for taking the time to write a thoughtful reply. I think those of us involved with training students and with trying to provide a jobs service for the profession appreciate the fact that you listened to the discussions and had thought about the issues.
This is a complex area, and we may also be at fault for advertising so widely through the web. (I emphasise, our Jobs Desk didn't carry this advert).
Congratulations on getting the post regarded!
Best wishes,
Jim
******************************
Jim Roberts Hon FMA
Webmaster
University of Leicester
School of Museum Studies
http://www.le.ac.uk/museumstudies
+44 (0)116 252 3961
******************************
The University of Leicester's School of Museum Studies has the highest proportion of world-leading research in any subject in any UK university (RAE 2008)
My blog... A Village Life
http://livingvillage.blogspot.com/
-----Original Message-----
From: List for discussion of issues in museum education in the UK. [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Louise Palmer
Sent: Thursday, September 24, 2009 1:09 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: First Come, First Served Jobs?
Thanks for your comments.
I understand the concern (I am the person who posted the vacancy email)
and we thought long and hard about doing this.
Personnel assured me that they have checked the legalities of this and
however unpalatable, is acceptable, as we did state that we would only
accept the first 50 applications. We need a closing date otherwise we
would not be able to close the application process should the reverse
happen.
What was unfortunate was that the advert was sent out while I was away
last week (Friday) and there was a communication breakdown our end about
the number of applications we had already received on my return. Had I
known, I would have reconsidered posting the advert on the GEM mailing
list on Monday as I always do (which is where we get majority of
interest from) and therefore raising and dashing the hopes of many
people who would have wanted to or had got part way through the process
of applying.
Given the large amount of recruitment we have been doing of late, the
turnover of this post and the large volume that we know we always
receive for this position (often over 200), we decided this was the
avenue to take this time. It is a good start off position for people
who want to get into museum learning (the majority of applications are
from people with MA Museum Studies qualifications) and for this reason,
they often leave within the year to go on to new challenges which we
obviously support but is difficult for us from a skills continuity
perspective. We are very thorough with the sifting process and abide by
the equal opportunities rules of fair play matching people's skills to
the job criteria with the applications we sift.
Apologies for the upset it has caused but just to add, we worked very
hard last year to rightfully get the salary regraded and increased.
Lesson learnt!
Louise Palmer
Schools Learning Manager
Horniman Museum & Gardens
-----Original Message-----
From: List for discussion of issues in museum education in the UK.
[mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 24 September 2009 09:47
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: First Come, First Served Jobs?
I know ploughing through feet of application forms is tedious in the
extreme (I've done it - repeatedly!) but I would have thought that
closing
acceptance of applications before the advertising closing date was
actually
contrary to the Equal Opportunities element of employment law. We have
to
assess every application that arrives up to and including the stated
closing date, and all have to be assessed using the same criteria (ie we
have to look at them properly!). I am fairly confident that if I asked
our
Human Resources people whether we could close applications earlier than
the
advertised date because we appeared to have plenty already, they would
not
allow me to do so, because the decision might be challenged by any of
the
would-be applicants that had missed their opportunity of applying.
Legally, I suspect the museum in question is on rather dodgy ground,
morally I think there is no question!
Janet Tierney
Lalage Grundy
<lalage.grundy@SU
RREYCC.GOV.UK>
To
Sent by: "List [log in to unmask]
for discussion of
cc
issues in museum
education in the
Subject
UK." Re: First Come, First Served
Jobs?
<[log in to unmask]
UK>
24/09/2009 09:34
Please respond to
Lalage Grundy
<lalage.grundy@SU
RREYCC.GOV.UK>
I agree that this does not seem to be good practice and feel that the
GEM
list should not encourage bad practice
Lalage Grundy
Surrey Heritage Team Manager for Learning, Museums and Partnership
130 Goldsworth Road, Woking, GU21 6ND
Tel 01483 518782
Neil Elsie <[log in to unmask]>
Sent by: "List for discussion of issues in museum
education in the UK." <[log in to unmask]>
To
GEM@JISCMAI
L.AC.UK
23/09/09 22:12
cc
Subject
Please respond to First
Come,
Neil Elsie <[log in to unmask]> First
Served
Jobs?
Dear All
Given the relatively recent e-mail exchange, I hope this prompts some
discussion - I'm relatively new to GEM list, have done some background
research, and checked the GEM archives.
I feel rather uncomfortable by a very recent advert for a job posted on
GEM
list (Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 1:53 PM). I won't mention names or
organisations, suffice to say that the job advertisement stated: "Please
note that the deadline is 5pm Fri 9th October and that owing to the
large
volume of interest we usually receive for these positions, only the
first
50 applications will be considered."
By Wed, Sep 23, 2009 at 5:23 PM the application process was closed "due
to
the high volume of interest in the post."
Having some background in recruitment, and museums (and museum
recruitment), does anyone else feel a little uneasy about a recruitment
process of this nature? To me it raises numerous questions about
reasonable
access to information...and more.
I'm very aware that all organisations have their own procedures, but
I've
never experienced anything quite like this, in any other sector. Surely
it
goes against several anti-discriminatory/ equal opportunity/ diversity
policies I'm aware of, and museums should be striving towards, if the
sector is really seeking to broaden the range of applicants to its jobs
on
offer... or is it really?
Given that GEM promotes promotes professionalism in the educational work
of
museums, can we really be certain that taking the first 50 applicants in
any recruitment process for a museum education job is a fair and
professional process?
I don't really think so but, I'd be really interested to hear from
anyone
that thinks this makes any sense.
I did see a discussion (in the GEM archives) about low pay - I think
this
is as important an issue. Can I make a plea to ensure the museum
learning
sector upholds high standards in its recruitment of staff, otherwise we
erode everything GEM works towards.
Neil Elsie
Learning Consultant
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