Joseph, I get attacks of high-mindedness now and again, then again I
find myself thinking oh what the f**k does it all matter.
As for God, I want to have some serious words with Her.
Rincewind.
2008/6/30 Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]>:
> That's very pure & high-minded of you, David. I intend irony, not sarcasm,
> here -- I half-agree with you, in fact. I just don't think such withdrawals
> from the social hurleyburley are entirely possible. That first person who
> scratched a poem or picture on a tree or stone wanted somebody -- maybe God
> -- to come by and notice. And approve.
>
> jd
>
> On Sun, Jun 29, 2008 at 7:35 PM, David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
> wrote:
>
>> And then the consequence becomes that online publications become
>> subject to accreditation and the requirement to be a name, and so
>> poetry becomes a monument to self-regarding creative-work, eh?
>>
>> I'll stick to my memory, and speaking, it's where it all began. With
>> marks on trees.
>>
>> 2008/6/29 M. Borges Accardi <[log in to unmask]>:
>> > I definitely think grants and such will catch up to accepting online
>> publication.? Just not right now.? . .
>> >
>> >
>> > -----Original Message-----
>> > From: TheOldMole <[log in to unmask]>
>> > To: [log in to unmask]
>> > Sent: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 10:17 am
>> > Subject: Re: The lyric poem - what be its current fate?
>> >
>> >
>> > I would say this can't last forever. Online-only magazines like Cortland
>> Review have lineups as prestigious as any print magazine.?
>> > ?
>> > I always send out a email to a pretty large mailing list when I have a
>> poem published online, and most of those actually go to the site and read my
>> work, and many of them go on to read more of the virtual journal, so at
>> least a tiny enlargement of the poetry audience is created.?
>> > ?
>> > M. Borges Accardi wrote:?
>> >> For whatever it is worth,?places like Guggenheim do not consider
>> "virtual" publication as publication credits.? Perhaps things will change in
>> time, but, for now, this is the case for many grants and residencies.?
>> Probably true too for academic publishing??
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >> -----Original Message-----?
>> >> From: Anny Ballardini <[log in to unmask]>?
>> >> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> Sent: Sun, 29 Jun 2008 7:56 am?
>> >> Subject: Re: The lyric poem - what be its current fate??
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >> Opps,?
>> >> I think that Internet publishing is a publication, the fact that it is?
>> >> "virtual" instead of "real" does not affect me that much. It even
>> partly?
>> >> appeases my guilty feelings for the destruction of trees to buy paper
>> and?
>> >> stack it in my library bursting new books I have not had the time to
>> read?
>> >> until now. And I do read a lot on the net, instead.?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 9:03 PM, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:?
>> >>?
>> >>> Ed, ouch! I guess the internet is a "literary catheter" & you're right
>> I?
>> >>> don't really believe internet publication is "real" publication (I
>> know, I?
>> >>> know), but yeah the cure is to keep on writing & writing to think. I
>> hardly?
>> >>> know what I think until I have written it & the poem, lyric or
>> narrative,?
>> >>> for me, is a mode of thought. I think that's what it's good for, to
>> sort of?
>> >>> go back to Stephen'[s original question. The structures &
>> constructions?
>> >>> required to make a poem offer a resistance to the chaos of sense?
>> >>> impressions?
>> >>> / impingements involved in living. The poem is how we map where & what
>> we?
>> >>> are. OK, I get that much. Why, then, should any kind of publication be?
>> >>> required? (I think I have something like an answer to this question,
>> but am?
>> >>> curious what others will say.)?
>> >>>?
>> >>> jd?
>> >>>?
>> >>> On Sat, Jun 28, 2008 at 2:46 PM, edward mycue <[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:?
>> >>>?
>> >>>> joseph, the "condition" (of not having recent poems accepted) may
>> have?
>> >>> much?
>> >>>> to do with the changeover from the exclusively written publication?
>> >>> sources?
>> >>>> to the broader internet (which we "accept" but really don't believe in
>> as?
>> >>>> much as even publication of very small press magazine publication
>> issues?
>> >>>> that were likened often to kleenex--used and discarded--). ARE YOU
>> SURE?
>> >>> IT'S?
>> >>>> RUST? says the little cockroach on the keyboard when my genie from?
>> >>> between?
>> >>>> my ears suggested pensively that i'd slowed as i maundred dawdling
>> abt?
>> >>> what?
>> >>>> to do fustigating my failing self-regard in great danger of becoming?
>> >>>> annihilating narcissism and blaming it on age-deprived oils of youth.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> of course i counter: just press on regardless!?
>> >>>> but does work truthfully? my inner george carlin parries & thrusts.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> i think it's physical: think of bladder infection when you have a?
>> >>>> bladderful. forcing is not the answer here. you need the literary?
>> >>>> equivalent of a catheter perhaps. (what would that be?)?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> keep writing?! yes! (but keep at near remove a device to relieve?
>> >>>> remembering the lawrence fixel comparison of poets' having the
>> imaginary?
>> >>>> carrot and imaginary stick vs. the real carrot and stick that writers
>> of?
>> >>>> plays, screenplays, & other narratives have.)?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> edward mycue?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> --- On Sat, 6/28/08, Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]> wrote:?
>> >>>> From: Joseph Duemer <[log in to unmask]>?
>> >>>> Subject: Re: The lyric poem - what be its current fate??
>> >>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> >>>> Date: Saturday, June 28, 2008, 6:11 AM?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> *Stephen writes:* "Without this surrounding labor of critical
>> community,?
>> >>> so?
>> >>>> many often extraordinarily fine lyric poems - let alone larger forms.
>> -?
>> >>> end?
>> >>>> up fleeting around, or become paralysed in a kind of statuary limbo.
>> They?
>> >>>> may vibrantly appear in a small publication, then disappear as
>> readily.?
>> >>> For?
>> >>>> the poet it takes a fierce stubbornness to put up with can appear as
>> an?
>> >>>> almost instant annihilation or a perennial sense of being 'not quite
>> dead?
>> >>>> on?
>> >>>> arrival'."?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> This has certainly been my recent experience, both as reader and
>> writer.?
>> >>>> Poets have almost always worked the liminal edges of American
>> culture,?
>> >>> but?
>> >>>> the edges seem to have become cliffs in recent decades, with poets &?
>> >>> poems?
>> >>>> dropping out sight leaving hardly a trace -- not even a fading
>> cartoon?
>> >>>> scream followed by a thud & a puff of dust. That would be something,
>> at?
>> >>>> least. Stephen is right, I think, to note the effect of recent
>> American?
>> >>>> politics on all kind of cultural habits, the trend starts before
>> Bush's?
>> >>>> completely demoralizing presidency. The country seems mostly dead to
>> me,?
>> >>>> without affect, lost in a vaguely buzzing media haze in which the idea
>> of?
>> >>> a?
>> >>>> lyric poem has no place.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> Speaking for myself, I've come to think of the poems I'm writing now
>> as?
>> >>>> posthumous works. After a career of moderate success getting my stuff?
>> >>>> published, nobody will take what I'm writing now. Maybe I've just?
>> >>>> become a?
>> >>>> terrible writer after turning 55, or maybe my moment has simply
>> passed.?
>> >>> In?
>> >>>> any case, I figure I'll keep at it until I hit 60 in three years and?
>> >>> unless?
>> >>>> something changes in the reception of my work, I'll turn my full?
>> >>> attention?
>> >>>> to gardening and cooking and leave poetry to others.?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> jd?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>> --?
>> >>>> Joseph Duemer?
>> >>>> Professor of Humanities?
>> >>>> Clarkson University?
>> >>>> Weblog: sharpsand.net?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>>?
>> >>>?
>> >>> --?
>> >>> Joseph Duemer?
>> >>> Professor of Humanities?
>> >>> Clarkson University?
>> >>> Weblog: sharpsand.net?
>> >>>?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> >>?
>> > ?
>> > -- Tad Richards?
>> > http://www.opus40.org/tadrichards/?
>> > http://opusforty.blogspot.com/?
>> > ?
>> > The moral is this: in American verse,?
>> > The better you are, the pay is worse.?
>> > ?--Corey Ford?
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> David Bircumshaw
>> Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
>> The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Joseph Duemer
> Professor of Humanities
> Clarkson University
> Weblog: sharpsand.net
>
--
David Bircumshaw
Website and A Chide's Alphabet http://homepage.ntlworld.com/david.bircumshaw/
The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.co.uk
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