medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
As Catherine suggested, we do need (desperately) to halt this exchange. It has gone beyond the remit of the list and it seems to be close to exceeding the bounds of tolerance. It is within the remit of the list to discuss other medieval religions and one starting point for a discussion of medieval Islam might be the writings of Talad Asad, which will give structure to the discussion, perhaps.
Dave Postles
pp. the list administration
________________________________
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious culture on behalf of Dennis Martin
Sent: Mon 07/11/2005 21:42
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] politically incorrect observations
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
You really need to stop distorting what I write. I said endemic. That is not the same as inherent. do you truly not know the difference?
These are only a few examples of the way you distort your opponent's views. I said Islamic cultures in the Middle East, not Islam in the abstract. And I don't write right-wing boilerplate. That was your label and your response is to proclaim arrogantlyl that because you apply a label to something that thing is what you say it is. Who decides what is and what is not rightwing boilerplate.
Dennis Martin
>>> [log in to unmask] 11/7/2005 3:11 PM >>>
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Dennis Martin wrote:
>You go from ad hominem to red herring (Nazi = Christian).
Hmm. To use your argument, I wasn't talking about Christianity, but about
Western Christian culture. It's the same argument as yours, but with the
nouns and modifiers replaced. Funny how only then is it seen as insidious.
>You still have not responded to the original problem: the attempt to shut
>down all discourse
>because the author of the original piece was a person who's [sic] views
>apparently do
>not even merit being heard, namely, a neo-con[.]
I must have missed the jack-booted thugs confiscating people's computers and
imprisoning them for daring to discuss the topic. As I recall, the author of
the piece was dismissed as a right-wing hack by a couple of posters.
Whenever such a thing is said about a right-winger, the howls are deafening,
along with accusations of book-burning, witch hunting, and being fed to the
lions. Meanwhile, anyone daring to disagree with them is usually saddled
with the usual bland epithets: America hater, communist, etc. I don't place
much stock in the crocodile outrage generated by calling a neocon hack a
neocon hack.
OK, so you want to have a discussion on "what's gone wrong with Islamic
culture." Fine. Forgive me if it seems like a childish and bigoted premise
on which to base a scholarly discussion. Might you not feel insulted if a
group of nonwestern, nonchristian correspondents began a discussion of
"what's gone wrong with Christian culture: genocide, endless war,
imperialism, destruction of the planet, pathological inability to leave
other cultures alone." I would, because I know there's more to the picture.
>I do not understand why academics permit this kind of abrupt, arrogant,
>prejudiced dismissal of >conservatives when they would be the first to jump
>on someone using it toward any other group >in society.
If you want me to stop charging you with the authorship of right-wing
boilerplate, perhaps you should stop writing it. Look at the above, a
perfect example of what I described earlier: the old
we're-being-thrown-to-the-lions routine. To me, it's one of the foremost
instances of political correctness gone awry: we're supposed to be polite
and tolerant of all viewpoints, so we're supposed to give equal footing to
serious academics along with creationists, or to people who want to have
enlightening discussions about the Monolithic Islamofascist Juggernaut, one
of the foremost examples of antisemitism at work in the world today. Of
course all such discussion is disguised by a veneer of polite scholarly
mannerisms, but it is ultimately cynical political rhetoric designed to keep
us in an us-vs-them state of mind.
>And I am still waiting for your admission that you accused me, no, mocked
>me, for calling Islam >pure eeeeeeevil when I wrote nothing even
>approaching that.
Aw shucks, I admit it. Happy? Now that that's out of the way, let's see what
you did say: that there is something inherently violent and antisemitic in
"Islamic cultures," not in the religion of Islam. Was it Twain who coined
the phrase "a distinction without a difference?" It is as absurd to say that
as it is to saddle "Western Christian culture" with nazism, the irony of
which comparison seems to have escaped you in my previous post.
MP
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|
