Sally,
Do you mean 'detection' proof in the last sentence? If so, one of the
solutions is to viva students on their assessed work.
George.
-----Original Message-----
From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of sally
jones
Sent: 24 April 2005 20:45
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
George
I am interested in making assessments 'cheat-proof' which would include
'plagiarism'. Hiring a cheat site makes it plagiarism proof if the
person does a good job.
Sally
>From: George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>
>Reply-To: Plagiarism <[log in to unmask]>,
George MacDonald Ross <[log in to unmask]>
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>Date: Sun, 24 Apr 2005 18:41:00 +0100
>
>Sally,
>
>I think we are edging towards agreement. Exams can be designed
better >than they have been in the past. Nevertheless, there are many
>alternative ways of assessing students which can be made more or
less >plagiarism-proof, and we shouldn't abandon innovative methods
of >assessment simply because of a panic about plagiarism. >
>George. > >-----Original Message-----
>From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
sally >jones
>Sent: 24 April 2005 16:21
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>
>
>George
>
>Exams that test problem-solving skills would test independent
thinking. >Where the exam is based on a case study approach, perhaps
with a >pre-issued case study, students would be encouraged to
develop themes. > >They would, of course, be harder to mark than
exams testing memory >skills, but you certainly would not be able to
pay someone to sit the >exam for you - hopefully! > >Sally >
>&gt;From: George MacDonald Ross
&lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
>&gt;Reply-To: Plagiarism
&lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;,
>George MacDonald Ross &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
>&gt;To: [log in to unmask]
>&gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>&gt;Date: Sat, 23 Apr 2005 21:09:49 +0100
>&gt;
>&gt;Sally,
>&gt;
>&gt;Exams aren't plagiarism-proof, because some students have
good >enough &gt;memories to regurgitate what they have learned
from sources >other than &gt;their own thinking (including what
they have been taught >by their &gt;teachers - and I tell my
students that I am a secondary >source like any &gt;other).
&gt; &gt;Exams are a useful form of >assessment where
memorisation of facts is at &gt;a premium, but for most >other
purposes they fail to reward the &gt;independent thinking skills
>we are trying to develop in our students, &gt;and they encourage
>students to regard education as nothing more than &gt;cramming
for >exams. It's crazy to undo all the valuable work of the last
&gt;few >decades in devising more valid forms of assessment,
simply because >&gt;of a panic about cheating. I don't use exams
at all, and because of >the &gt;way I teach and set my
assignments, plagiarism is the least of >my &gt;problems. My
biggest problem is to wean students from the exam >&gt;mentality,
and to get them to think for themselves. &gt; &gt;George.
>&gt; &gt;-----Original Message-----
>&gt;From: Plagiarism [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of >sally &gt;jones
>&gt;Sent: 23 April 2005 19:44
>&gt;To: [log in to unmask]
>&gt;Subject: Re: Response to Reddy
>&gt;
>&gt;
>&gt;
>&gt;All you have to do is make the qualification 100% by exam.
&gt; >&gt;It's really that simple. &gt; &gt;(As I
believe Herriot Watt do
>already) &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;From: George >MacDonald Ross
&lt;[log in to unmask]&gt; &gt;
&gt;Reply-To:
>Plagiarism &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;,
> George
>&gt;MacDonald Ross &lt;[log in to unmask]&gt;
>&gt; &gt;To: [log in to unmask]
>&gt; &gt;Subject: Response to Reddy
>&gt; &gt;Date: Fri, 22 Apr 2005 09:55:17 +0100 >&gt;
&gt; >&gt; &gt;I like Mike's account of the student
presentation. I don't >think anyone &gt; &gt; &gt;would
object to what he did, unless he >pretended that the materials he
&gt; &gt;used were his own. From what >Mike says, he put a
lot of his own &gt;thinking &gt; &gt;into the
>presentation. &gt; &gt; &gt; &gt;As for Sally's
idea, it is similar to >one I had myself a couple of &gt;years
&gt; &gt;ago (even though I >didn't get round to doing it at
the time). This was &gt; &gt;to write a >short guide for
students on 'How to Plagiarise &gt;Successfully'. &gt;
>&gt;The subtext would be that it's less trouble and far more
rewarding >to &gt;do &gt; &gt;the work yourself. &gt;
&gt; &gt; &gt;I also agree >that it's a zero sum game for
teachers and students to &gt; &gt;compete >with each other
for ever more sophisticated methods of cheating &gt; >&gt;
&gt;and detection. If courses and assessments are properly
>designed, and &gt;the &gt; &gt;learning culture is
right, the question >of cheating should arise only &gt;in
&gt; &gt;exceptional circumstances. >&gt; &gt;
&gt; &gt;George. &gt; &gt; &gt;
>&gt;************************************************************
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