Klaus,

Klaus Krippendorff wrote:
> [...]
> yes, this is the mark of functionalism, in my experiences, and having been
> one long ago, i don't think engineers describe their world according to how
> people conceptualize and act on what they see, which is what i suggested
> human-centered designers should do.

I was trying to say that an engineer will tend to name a thing by what 
the engineer perceives the thing does, not by what "people" (i.e. anyone 
else) perceives the thing does.  If you're suggesting that different 
people will have different notions about what the thing does, then I 
agree with you.

How about this.  Naming things by function has been around a long time. 
  But the context in which a functional name is selected for a thing 
will vary from person to person.  A human-centred designer ought to at 
least try to understand what other people will see (and perhaps 
therefore name) things as doing.

Are we getting close?

> 
> in response to my arguing the maoris may have a very different conceptual
> system of comprehending their world, you said:
> 
>     it appears that the brain is wired to distinguish objects with
> properties, and parts and compositions.  Granted, I don't think anyone has
> studied a Maori brain that way.  But it seems reasonable to think their
> brains are wired as ours are.  It would be interesting to know for sure,
> though.
> 
> first, it is a very western conception of the world as composed of objects
> with properties.  there is a history of this conception and it is changing
> somewhat.  why should the human brain be wired according to western
> conceptions of the world?

I don't know why.  I'm unconvinced there is a relation there at all.

If I knew that only westerners' brains had been tested this way, I would 
consider that the brain became wired that way during the first couple of 
decades of the subject's life (turns out the higher function regions of 
the brain take about 20 yrs to develop) because the subject was raised 
in a western setting.

But the research I've heard of has found that the brains of people 
raised in the far east are 'wired' pretty much the same as westerners 
brains.

> second, what would the knowledge of how the brain IS WIRED FOR SURE
> contribute to what happens in design as a social or cultural phenomenon?

If brain wiring formed a basis of how we 'see' things, then wouldn't it 
constitute a (i.e. one of many) basis upon which we construct social or 
cultural phenomena (including design)?

> p.s. at least one conception of the brain is that it constantly rewires
> itself as its beholder interacts with an principally unknowable
> environment -- not to represent but in creating a livable future

Sure, but not completely.  There's big chunks of the brain that haven't 
changed in an awefully long time.  It seems that the parts of the brain 
that rewire itself are those parts that deal most directly with 
consciousness and 'mind'.  But that's a relatively tiny fraction of the 
brain (with respect what scientists figure the brain is doing all the time).

The constant parts of the brain happen to be those that feed information 
to the parts where it appears consciousness lives.  They are the 
connection, as it were, between what we sense and what we perceive.  But 
they also do an aweful lot of 'pre-processing'.  So it stands to reason 
to me that how we perceive is driven at least in part by the automatic 
processing of the constant parts of our brains.

Finally, I can accept that parts of the brain may rewire themselves to 
adapt to the environment and perhaps even as a result of the mind's 
operation (it'd be a kind of self-adjusting feedback).

But I have trouble with "-- not to represent but in creating a livable 
future."  This for me ascribes 'way too much to the brain/mind.

If I were writing this, I'd've said "-- not to represent but in 
fulfilling evolutionary directives of survival modified by external 
(social, cultural, etc) and internal (feedback from other parts of the 
brain, memory, etc) forces."

Cheers.
Fil

-- 
Prof. Filippo A. Salustri, Ph.D., P.Eng.
Department of Mechanical and Industrial Engineering
Ryerson University                         Tel: 416/979-5000 x7749
350 Victoria St.                           Fax: 416/979-5265
Toronto, ON                                email: [log in to unmask]
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