medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> "Suger's relationships with the kings of France is another area befogged by
William's [Suger's secretary] myth-making. As I have already indicated,
Suger's relationship with the two Louis [VI and VII] was complex and often
unhappy. There was little love lost, and little concensus on policy between
Suger and Louis VII."
> Lindy Grant, _Abbot Suger of Saint-Denis_.
great book.
if she says so...
unless.........
> Among other issues, Louis VI clashed mightily with Suger in the matter of
naming an abbot of Saint-Denis. So, I suggest that if Suger didn't call Louis
VII very Christian but simple-minded, he could have.
i suppose so.
but, in some kind of publically available writing?
i can't quite picture the context --certainly not in his biography of Louie
the Kid.
i'm trying --without much sucess-- to remember anything critical of Fat Louie
in his biography of that Annointed Monarch.
Criticism just doesn't quite fit, within the Hagiographic format.
"Suger's relationship with the two Louis [VI and VII] was complex and often
unhappy."
the position and actions of the King were very, very complex --and, not
infrequently, actually contradictory-- in a number of areas, especially during
the earlier period, when "First Among Equals" was not just a slogan and the
King had to do a fairly delicate balancing/juggling act (i'm thinking
particularly of the issue of ecclesiastical "reform" in Fat Louie's reign).
"There was little love lost, and little concensus on policy between Suger and
Louis VII."
and there was a generation gap of no small importance, surely --Louie the Kid
chaffing at the bit, both men comming from and looking at very different
worlds to respond to.
and lots of areas where "policy" could have led to conflicts of interest.
> I have been unable to pin down the source of the quotation regarding Louis
VII. It appears that a great many folks were of that opinion and finding the
exact source will *probably* be a matter of luck.
well, Good Luck.
and, keep us posted.
c
p.s. Dollar$ to Donut$ it wasn't Suger.
"Lots of useless other data points just enlarge the consciousness of the
agrieved showing how particular the pain is."
--Burma Shave
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