The problem arises because NPfIT has assumptions about "clusters" and
"national" as being appropriate levels of aggregation and system
design...
Jonathan
On 14 Oct 2004, at 12:30, Martin Holland wrote:
> Surely a local viewer will require only one set of units and reference
> ranges for the local cumulative data. The problem will arise when
> national
> or international organisations want to use global data.
>
> Regards,
>
> Martin.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mainwaring-Burton Richard (RGZ)
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 14 October 2004 12:26
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Aggregation of reports from nontransferable methods
>
>
> Is this really a feasible solution ?
> If a local viewer is wanting to look at a cumulation of LFT results,
> they
> will not want the screen cluttered up with units and reference ranges
> for 8
> or 9 analytes on successive dates (who would?). As a result they are
> going
> to omit these items from their view, just as we all see in clinical
> presentations including alk phos results gleaned from notes. We
> already have
> problems with creatinines in µmol/L and mmol/L, troponins T & I called
> 'troponin', adjusted calcium, digoxin in ng/mL, µg/L, nmol/L etc. etc
>
> with best wishes
>
> Richard
>
> Richard Mainwaring-Burton
> Consultant Biochemist
> Queen Mary's Hospital
> Sidcup, Kent
> DA14 6LT
> 020-8308-3084
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Griffiths Paul (RQ3) BCH [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 14 October 2004 11:59
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Aggregation of reports from nontransferable methods
>
>
> Jonathan,
>
> This was raised by several of us at a clinical engagement session on
> orders/reporting in the NWWM cluster. As I understand it the result
> will be
> transmitted together with the appropriate reference range attached and
> this
> will form part of the record. However I agree that this may then be
> used out
> of context. I also agree about the non-transferability of results,
> however
> one only needs to look at the range of results for EQA data to see
> that even
> labs using the same methods can vary greatly in their results for
> individual
> specimens/analytes.
>
> Regards
>
> Paul Griffiths
> Birmingham Children's Hospital
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jonathan Kay [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
> Sent: 14 October 2004 11:22
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Aggregation of reports from nontransferable methods
>
>
> Yes, it's an enormous problem.
>
> I've noted this with NPfIT, but I don't think it is identified in any
> of their documents.
>
> Jonathan
>
> PS: I think this nontransferability reflects badly on our profession...
>
> On 14 Oct 2004, at 09:24, Mainwaring-Burton Richard (RGZ) wrote:
>
>> I have a serious concern in this regard relating to coding and the
>> centralisation of records. As we are using a variety of tehniques for
>> estimation of parameters, there are inevitably going to be variations
>> in
>> reference ranges and units between result providers. Alkaline
>> phosphatase is
>> the classic example. Hence the coding system will have to reflect
>> these
>> variations when the results are uploaded from our laboratory systems
>> onto
>> the ICRS in the sky so that the results can be meaningfully filed and
>> compared by the viewers. Does anyone know of anyone else who is a)
>> concerned and b) addressing the issue ?
>>
>> with best wishes
>>
>> Richard
>>
>> Richard Mainwaring-Burton
>> Consultant Biochemist
>> Queen Mary's Hospital
>> Sidcup, Kent
>> DA14 6LT
>> 020-8308-3084
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: gordon.challand [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 14 October 2004 00:02
>> To: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: C-NPU
>>
>>
>> Dear Urban
>> I simply enquired how many labs in the UK were using IUPAC coding
>> numbers.
>> From the deafening silence from almost all of the participants in the
>> UK ACB
>> mailbase (half of which are outside the UK) I infer virtually none
>> are. This
>> is not related to the insular minds of the Albions (whatever that
>> means) nor
>> to any argument about what might or might not be 'metrologically
>> correct'
>> (whatever that means).
>> I'm old enough to remember being asked to comment on an IFCC document
>> which
>> related to definitions without any units attached to them (ie simple
>> numbers). The proposed IFCC definition at that time was 'entitities'.
>> I
>> don't know how much time or expense was embarked on by the IFCC at
>> that time
>> to establish this basic premise; but even thirty years later I am
>> astonished
>> at the gulf between what might be called metrological purists, and
>> those who
>> have to try to convert numericl values into terms which might be
>> understood
>> by the patient, by the clinician, by the layman, and by the
>> politician. Can
>> some of you please 'get real' to the gulf between how we express our
>> results, and how we convert those results into terms which are
>> comprehensible to the outside world.
>> With best wishes
>> Gordon Challand
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Urban Forsum" <[log in to unmask]>
>> To: <[log in to unmask]>
>> Cc: "Anders Kallner" <[log in to unmask]>; "Jean-Claude
>> FOREST"
>> <[log in to unmask]>; "Muller, Mathias"
>> <[log in to unmask]>
>> Sent: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 10:16 PM
>> Subject: Re: C-NPU
>>
>>
>> Dear College,
>> With regard to the conversation below I would be happy to supply you
>> with
>> whatever information you may need to be conversant with the philosophy
>> and
>> practice of the C-NPU that is dedicate to further the cause of
>> metrologically correct and correct transmission the value of
>> quantities (and
>> other properties) that are measured or observed in the clinical
>> laboratory.
>> Yours
>> Urban Forsum
>> Chairman C-NPU
>>
>>
>> Urban Forsum MD, PhD
>> Visiting Professor
>> Department of Pathology and Laboratory Medicine
>> University of Wisconsin
>> cellular phone: +46-708-730157
>> [log in to unmask]
>> private:
>> 34 University Houses
>> Apartment F
>> Madison WI 537 05 USA
>> voice-phone: +1-608-238 2169
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: Anders Kallner <[log in to unmask]>
>> Date: Wednesday, October 13, 2004 0:27 am
>> Subject: C-NPU
>>
>>> Dear Urban, Mathias and Jean-Claud,
>>>
>>> The correspondance below appeared on the ACB (Association of
>>> Clinical Biochemists, UK).
>>>
>>> The IFCC/IUPAC and the colleagues in UK in particular should take
>>> this opportunity to contribute with substantial information on the
>>> C-NPU system. It fall upon others to break the insular mind of the
>>> Albions!
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>> Anders
>>>
>>> How does this sit alongside the obsolescent Read codes and
>>> incipient SNOMED codes ?
>>>
>>> with best wishes
>>>
>>> Richard
>>>
>>> Richard Mainwaring-Burton
>>> Consultant Biochemist
>>> Queen Mary's Hospital
>>> Sidcup, Kent
>>> DA14 6LT
>>> 020-8308-3084
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: gordon.challand [[log in to unmask]]
>>> Sent: 11 October 2004 13:53
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: IUPAC/IFCC unique test code numbers
>>>
>>>
>>> I gather that IUPAC and IFCC have developed a list of unique
>>> numerical codes to identify which laboratory test is being carried
>>> out.
>>> Are any UK laboratories using these to identify their own tests;
>>> or are we all using our own self-generated codes for our LISs?
>>> Gordon Challand
>>> ------ACB discussion List Information-------- This is an open
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>>>
>>>
>>> Anders Kallner
>>> Docent, överläkare
>>> Avd Klin Kemi
>>> Karolinska universitetsjukhuset i Solna
>>> tel 08 5177 49 43
>>> fax 08 517728 99
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>
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