medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
One could also have a look at Elaine Graham-Leigh, "Justifying Deaths: The Chronicler Pierre des
Vaux-de-Cernay and the Massacre of Béziers", _Mediaeval Studies_ 63 (2001), 283-303. Regardless of what Arnaud may have actually said or done, the saying attributed to him is presented by Caesarius in a way that undermines any straightforward acceptance of it.
Yet it clearly _has_ been widely accepted. And without qualification. So perhaps, even though this acceptance would seem to involve a naive reading (or wilful misreading) of C., it has an authoritative sponsor. And as the quote is given very often in modern French, perhaps that sponsor is/was francophone. Hence my query to Terrill about a source for the _French_ version he cited. I'm looking for francophone intermediaries, not the Latin original.
Best again,
John Dillon
On Tue, 11 Nov 2003 22:18:44 -0500
Nicole Schulman <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>>And
>>do you have a source for this French version? There's a Latin one in
>>Caesarius of Heisterbach's closely contemporary _Dialogus miraculorum_,
>>dist. 5, cap. 21. But that's put in the mouth of a character in a dialogue
>>and is preceded by the distancing formula "fertur dixisse", leading one to
>>suppose that Caesarius (who is ordinarily concerned to indicate the
>>relative reliability of his sources) is not vouching for the accuracy of
>>this particular piece of reported discourse. Best, John Dillon
>
>The French version comes from Heisterbach who is its sole source.
>
>And, yes, there is every reason to doubt its authenticity. The other
>accounts (that were more contemporaneous) do not mention that Arnaud
>had any such role in the massacre. Sibly & Sibly have a very
>sensible discussion of the whole massacre in an appendix to their
>translation of Vaux-de-Cernay's History of the Albigensian Crusade,
>which is worth a gander.
>--
> Nicole Morgan Schulman n.m.schulman <at> sympatico.ca
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|