medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture

>Dear Jim Bugslag - Although Arnold van Gennep's books are perhaps
>considered dated by now, his work provides a mine of folklore and
>customary beliefs in Savoy, northern France and Walloon Belgium, with many
>references to the French archives and the papers therein of collectors who
>gathered material on the subject in the nineteenth century. Aline Hornaday

>Date:    Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:29:07 -0500
>From:    Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: the non-Christian Middle Ages
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Dear John,
>I wasn't thinking of the Jews or Eastern-rite Christians, nor even of
>heretics, but of
>non-Christian beliefs which fall within the realm of folklore.  Folklore
>means many
>things to many people, but as it was initially defined by W.J. Thoms in
>1846, folklore
>denoted "the traditions, customs and superstitions of the uncultured
>classes in
>civilized nations".  In other words, while the religion of "heretics" is
>marginalized
>because of its dissent from orthodoxy, a good part of the religion of the
>peasantry is
>branded as "superstition" because they are just too brutish to come fully
>on board.
>I'm thinking of, for example, "holy wells", which were often given a
>superficial
>"Christian" veneer but which do not enter in any manner into the realm of
>organized
>Christian "theology" and can only at a stretch be considered
>"Christian".  Or like the
>strange agricultural practices that somebody mentioned a couple of weeks
>ago in a
>different string.  I'm beginning to think that this body of "religious
>belief" was fairly
>substantial, not only in the Middle Ages but well into the Enlightenment,
>but it
>tended to be completely ignored by the medieval church and so appears to be
>almost completely undocumented.  Even the study of "popular religion" seems to
>ignore a lot of these beliefs.  So far as I know, anyway.  But if anyone
>knows of
>literature on this aspect of the "non-Christian" Middle Ages, I'd be very
>grateful.
>Cheers,
>Jim Bugslag
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Sat, 20 Sep 2003 22:53:12 -0500
>From:    John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: the non-Christian Middle Ages
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Dear Jim,
>
>See below.
>
>On Sat, 20 Sep 2003 18:29:07 -0500 you wrote:
> >Dear John,
> >I wasn't thinking of the Jews or Eastern-rite Christians, nor even of
> heretics, but of
> >non-Christian beliefs which fall within the realm of folklore.
>
>I gathered as much from the final clause of your inquiry.  But you had
>posed that inquiry as a follow-up, addressed to me, on my expression of
>dissatisfaction with a statement about the extent of conversion to Latin
>Christianity in medieval Western Europe.  So I thought it appropriate to
>begin with outlining what +I+ found wrong with that statement, even though
>this did not address your concerns.  Which latter, I suspect, have to do
>chiefly with members of groups already converted, i.e. nominal Christians.
>
> > ... In other words, while the religion of "heretics" is marginalized
> >because of its dissent from orthodoxy, a good part of the religion of
> the peasantry is
> >branded as "superstition" because they are just too brutish to come
> fully on board.
> >I'm thinking of, for example, "holy wells", which were often given a
> superficial
> >"Christian" veneer but which do not enter in any manner into the realm
> of organized
> >Christian "theology" and can only at a stretch be considered
> "Christian".  Or like the
> >strange agricultural practices that somebody mentioned a couple of weeks
> ago in a
> >different string.  I'm beginning to think that this body of "religious
> belief" was fairly
> >substantial, not only in the Middle Ages but well into the Enlightenment,
>
>I have the same impression about the Enlightenment, but that may be
>because 18th- and 19th-century investigators were interested in "pagan
>survivals" and reported instances that got into things I have read.  But
>did they correctly interpret what they reported, and how statistically
>siginificant were these instances in the first place?
>
>  but it
> >tended to be completely ignored by the medieval church and so appears to be
> >almost completely undocumented.
>
>Or when it is documented, it may occur in contexts whose factual accuracy
>we may find suspect (saint's lives, for example).  This is a real problem
>in assessing the extent of "popular" non-Christian belief in early
>medieval Italy.
>
>   Even the study of "popular religion" seems to
> >ignore a lot of these beliefs.  So far as I know, anyway.  But if anyone
> knows of
> >literature on this aspect of the "non-Christian" Middle Ages, I'd be
> very grateful.
> >
>
>A possible way of getting at this (which has probably already occurred to
>you) is to have a look at recent work on the ideological content of
>christianization in medieval Europe to see if any pertinent literature
>gets footnoted in discussions of post-coversion survivals or adaptations
>of people's pre-Christian practices.  A good place to start might be
>Carole Cusack's _Conversion among the Germanic Peoples_ (London: Cassell,
>1998).  Another might be some of the essays in Guyda Armstrong and Ian
>Wood, eds., _Christianizing Peoples and Converting Individuals_ (Turnhout:
>Brepols, 2000).
>
>Best again,
>John Dillon
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:31:08 +0100
>From:    Stella Rock <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: the non-Christian middle ages
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Dear Jim
>
>if your main interest is the insufficiently-Christian or pagan middle ages,
>rather than the Jewish or Muslim middle ages, you might like to try the
>fascinating "Lithuania Ascending: A Pagan Empire within East-Central Europe
>1295-1345" by S. C. Rowell, (1994) and an excellent volume edited by Ludo
>J. R. Milis entitled "The Pagan Middle Ages" (1998, the Dutch language
>original published in 1991 as "Die Heidense Middleeuwen"). My own research
>on the Russian equivalent will be published next year by Routledge, as
>"Popular Religion in Russia: "Double-belief" and the Making of an Academic
>Myth" - I hope the plug is acceptable, given the context...
>
>Best wishes
>
>Stella
>
>
>
>*****************************************
>Dr Stella Rock
>Research Fellow
>Arts B
>University of Sussex
>Brighton  BN1 9QL
>Tel: 01273 678837
>Fax: 01273 877174
>Email:[log in to unmask]
>*****************************************
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Sun, 21 Sep 2003 15:57:48 -0500
>From:    Jim Bugslag <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: the non-Christian middle ages
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Many thanks to John Dillon and the, as usual, several other very useful
>responses
>to my query about "pagan survivals", or whatever they are, in medieval
>religion.
>Cheers,
>Jim
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Sun, 21 Sep 2003 18:01:20 -0400
>From:    Tom Izbicki <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: Re: St. Sist and the Sistine Chapel (exclamation mark)
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Bourbon was outside the walls.  Have you checked on San Sisto Vecchio, a=20
>church near the Appian Way that had a long association with the=20
>Dominicans?  It is named for the pope whom the martyr Lawrence served.
>Tom Izbicki
>
>At 06:47 PM 9/19/2003 -0700, Al Magary wrote:
> >medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> >Hall's Chronicle (1550) describes the capture of Rome by Emperor
> >Charles V's troops:  "In this last assaute was the Duke of
> >Burbon stryken in the thygh with a handgonne, of the whiche he
> >shortly dyed in a chapell of s. Syst, whyther his Souldiers had
> >brought hym."  (Henry VIII, fol. 159v)
> >
> >Now, that *is* an interesting story, I thought, even if it does
> >disagree with the usual explanation of how the Sistine Chapel
> >got its name.  (I.e., from Sixtus IV, pope 1471-84; the chapel
> >was built 1475-81 and dedicated to St. Mary.)  But I Googled a
> >bit and found an apparent St. Sist in a French book of the
> >hours, for July 12:  the Artz Hours, aka Heures =E0 l'usage du
> >Mans et d'Angers, thought to have been made in Paris ca.
> >1420-40; it's at Oberlin College and is online at
> >http://www.chd.dk/cals/artzh_kal.html
> >
> >But that's all I could find about St. Sist, so I wondered how on
> >earth Hall the chronicler came upon the name.  Was the Sistine
> >Chapel contemporaneously known at the Chapel of St. Sist?  That
> >seems silly and unlikely, but that's history.
> >
> >As for Charles, Duke of Bourbon but known to history as
> >"Constable Bourbon," he was shot with a bolt from a crossbow
> >(the goldsmith and artist Cellini claimed that he fired the
> >shot) and lay in state in the Sistine Chapel--which,
> >accordingly, was spared looting by the imperial/Protestant
> >troops.
> >
> >Al Magary
> >
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>
>Thomas M. Izbicki
>Collection Development Coordinator
>Eisenhower Library
>Johns Hopkins University
>3400 N. Charles Street
>Baltimore, MD 21218
>Telephone:  410-516-7173
>Fax:  410-516-8399
>
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>------------------------------
>
>Date:    Sun, 21 Sep 2003 17:36:32 -0700
>From:    Phyllis Jestice <[log in to unmask]>
>Subject: saints of the day 22. September
>
>medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
>Today (22. September) is the feast day of:
>
>Digna & Emerita (d. c. 259)  Two Roman women (young, beautiful virgins,
>doubtless) who were martyred by being hanged by their hair and gradually
>burned to death with torches.  Or it may be one woman, referred to as
>"digna" and "emerita" in the account.
>
>Theban Legion (d. 287?)  According to legend, this was a legion of 6,600
>Christians (by the way, legions weren't nearly so large in the third
>century, if they ever were, which is doubtful) recruited in Upper Egypt.
>When taken to fight rebels in Gaul, according to legend A the legion
>refused to join in the sacrifices for victory before battle; according to
>legend B the legion refused to attack innocent people.  So they were
>decimated---twice---but still refused.  Then they were massacred.  Several
>members of the legion have independent cults, most famously Maurice,
>Vitalis, two Victors, and Gereon.  A basilica was built at what is now the
>town of St. Maurice in the late fourth century, suggesting that there is
>some element of historicity to the story, even if exaggerated.  Their cult
>was nonetheless reduced to local calendar status in 1969.
>
>Felix III (d. 530)  Felix was from the area of Benevento.  He became pope
>in 526.  He is remembered for his care of the poor of Rome.
>
>Salaberga (d. c. 665)  Salaberga was from near Langres (France).  After she
>was widowed, she married Blandinus (also a saint) and had five children
>(including two more saints).  When the couple separated to enter religious
>life, Salaberga founded a great double monastery in Laon, dedicated to John
>the Baptist, which she ruled as abbess.
>
>Emmeram (d. c. 690)  Legend tells that Emmeram was a native of Poitiers who
>decided to become a missionary to the Avars, but ended up stopping in
>Bavaria.  He became bishop at Regensburg and an active missionary.  But the
>duke of Bavaria's son waylaid E., accusing him of seducing his sister---E.,
>trying to shield the girl's lover, didn't deny the charge.  So he was
>blinded and had his hands and feet hacked off, from which he died.  He is
>venerated as a martyr.
>
>
>Dr. Phyllis G. Jestice
>[log in to unmask]
>
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>------------------------------
>
>End of MEDIEVAL-RELIGION Digest - 20 Sep 2003 to 21 Sep 2003 (#2003-262)
>************************************************************************

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