JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives


FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives


FILM-PHILOSOPHY@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Home

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Home

FILM-PHILOSOPHY  2003

FILM-PHILOSOPHY 2003

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: Movie vs. Video (2 net movie projects)

From:

Robert Koehler <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Film-Philosophy Salon <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Thu, 8 May 2003 16:24:55 -0700

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (60 lines)

Doron wrote:
I'd like to quote from Peter von Brandenburg the NY art critic that said:
"film & video are mediumistic descriptors, whereas 'movie' is 'a media',
e.g. an actual aesthetic vector.
Either film or video might or might not be 'a movie'."

Unfortunately, Doron, these comments by von Brandenburg are, to put it
charitably, less than helpful. Worse, I haven't the foggiest notion of what
the man is writing about. ``Mediumistic descriptors''??!!?? What, pray tell,
is this? To parse this term is probably not worth my time, but it may (and
I'm guessing here) refer to terms that describe the medium...? Actually, as
I noted before, the terms ``film'' and ``video'' don't describe
anything--they identify the two media in a specifically materialist way.
Film IS film; video IS video. This is precisely why art museums and
galleries use these terms (and sometimes go further, identifying the film
format, eg. 16mm, 35mm) for labelling works on display.
    Therefore, von Brandenburg's second statement quoted here is manifestly
incorrect. ``Movie'' is most definitely NOT ``a media.'' He goes on, in his
apparently willfully obtuse, inpenetrable prose, to note that ``movie'' as
``a media'' is, for eg. ``an actual aesthetic vector.'' At which point, I
stop cold in my tracks, whip my head around Conan O'Brien-style (mimicking
George Bush The Child) and go, ``Huh?!?''
    ``Movie'' is an American slang pop cultural word that cleverly reduces
the term ``motion picture.'' (We Americans have forever been addicted to
this kiind of reduction: I'm Robert, but you can call me Bob. Just don't
call me Bob le Flambeur.) ``Movie'' is a far richer and more complicated
word than something that can be abstracted to the nonsense of ``aesthetic
vector.'' (Definition, please!) The word has been attached to everything
from pure pop culture fandom, to the critical movement surrounding the U.K.
film journal, Movie, to the ``movie-over-cinema art'' argument that was
Kael's particular banner to wave. There are so many disparate associations
with ``movie'' that I wonder if they've ever been fully quantified or
listed. But whatever uses the word may have, none include identifing the
medium.
    Then, finally, the von Brandenburg quote ends with this doozy: ``Either
film or video might or might not be 'a movie'." Well, now, that's settled,
isn't it? One way to read this is as a terrible re-phrasing of the John
Simon line, that some works of cinema are ``films'' (Simon would cite
Bergman, early Wertmuller) and others are ``movies'' (eg., Jerry Lewis
comedies). As I said before, this sort of discrimination is both pointless
and hopeless: Where does one exactly draw the line between what qualifies as
``a movie'' or ``a film'' under these aesthetic rules? Isn't this just a
very bad English-language verbal fumbling of the French ``un film de''
credit, transferring the supposedly more serious French cinephilic value to
American terminology, thus making what might be ``a movie'' into something
that's suddenly ``a film'' (eg. ``a film by McG'')? Isn't this usage
actually at heart driven by marketing dictates, which find such meaningless
distinctions useful in categorizing various works for filing in the vast
marketplace? And if this is the case, what does this have to do in any way
with the cinema work's intrinsic value, merit or meaning?
    On the other hand, what von Brandenburg may be stating is so beyond the
point that it isn't worth stating at all. For one thing, a ``video'' is
never a ``movie.'' Videotape contains no pictures (and certainly no motion
pictures), but does contain electronic information. And ``film'' can also be
still photo film, which is obviously not a motion picture, or ``movie.''
    If anything, von Brandenburg's comments only underline my previous
point, which is that the cinema culture needs to use its terms with clarity
and precision.
Robert Koehler

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

May 2024
April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager