medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Marjorie Greene <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>You must stop piquing my curiosity :-)
i'm trying to quit, honest, but George won't let me.
>Again my source is the good old Guide, so caveat emptor:
who writes those things, anyway ?
when i was on the road all over France in my misspent youth the little
regional guides were, well, my guides --seemed like not many villages sporting
"une joli belle église" got past them, and even some *really* remote,
abandoned chapels out in the sticks.
never thought to actually read the text, however.
i'm just very careful what i put into my head, unless i know where it's been.
>Up until 1627 when Paris became an archbishopric,
there seem to have been other 17th c. diocese shufflings --the diocese of
Blois was carved out of that of Chartres (and Orleans & Bourges?) in 1697.
i assume that this was part of contemporary ecclesio-political shenanigans, of
which i know nothing.
here's a 19th century map of the Chartres diocese probably drawn by the local
archivist (Lucien Merlet), using the _pouillés_, showing its pre-1697
boundries and subdivisions :
http://www.ariadne.org//centrechartraine/maps/1697map.html
note that it is larger than that of Orleans and more than twice the size of
that of Paris.
>Sens took precedence [eut la prééminence] over the bishoprics of Chartres,
Auxerre, Meaux, Paris, Orléans, Nevers and Troyes whose initials form the
motto [devise] of the metropolitan church: "Campont."
now, *that* is the sort of information which makes the Guide Bleu
indispensible to the inquiring middleviliste.
>Alexander III's stay in Sens made it the virtual capital of Christendom.
?
didn't know this.
when ? how long ?
>It was at Sens that Abelard was condemned [:-(((]
may i *assume* that that was because it was a metropolitan synod called to
consider the matter because A. was active in the province (and over several
episcopal sees) ?
>and in 1234 Saint Louis and Marguerite de Provence were married in the
cathedral (St-Etienne).
didn't know this and certainly have no idea why Sens would have been chosen
for this celebration.
i do know that he was down that way a few years later, at
Villeneuve-l'Archeveque [look *that* up in the G.b.] to greet the arrival of
the Crown of Thorns & other relices he'd just bought, as they entered his
domains.
>Along with Paris the [arch-]diocese of Sens lost Meaux, Chartres and
Orléans.
to the new (arch-)docese of Paris, in that 1627 reorganisation.
>As for Troyes, Saint Loup, bishop for 53 years, faced down Attila and offered
himself as hostage if A would spare the city, this while Reims was in flames.
one wonders if Reims (which, in Roman times, *must* have been a bigger pile
than Troyes?) had, for some reason, suffered more from the "fall" of the
Empire, if its walls had not been kept up, if its stratigic situation was
inherently less defensible than that of Troyes ?
could have just been Loup's good looks, i suppose...
>An impressed A went elsewhere to wreak havoc.
and Loupus got credit for a "miracle" --pretty slick. Pass the Buck and get a
Receipt.
>Anything else? ;-)))
no, that should do it, for the present, thanks.
christopher
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