From: Osher Doctorow [log in to unmask], Fri. July 12, 2002 10:47AM

As Paul Hoffman says, there are truth, logic, statistics, and then there are
those nagging phrases that cloud and obfuscate.   Actually, those nagging
phrases are sometimes well organized - in the last few days, on other
forums, they have been concentrated to an extent that only Nazi propaganda
of WWII days attained.   But then, Alcaida and the Nazis are both
Indiscriminate Terrorists.

There is also something else that clouds and obfuscates, although I may have
to start a new topic since it is only partly related to the July 4 murder.
This *something else* is the European Union (EU) and in particular its
judicial/tribunal function which has recently been created.  Since I
discussed statistical and logical aspects of the July 4 murder earlier, I
will allow myself the luxury of asking whether there is anything clouding or
obfuscating about the EU judiciary function (EUJF for brevity).  Since
Ingenious Imitators in and out of academia usually refer back to Founding
Fathers of one sort or another, who are the EUJF Founding Fathers which they
will be referring to soon if not already?   The most anti-Jewish nations in
Western Civilization at present include Norway, Sweden, Switzerland in
roughly that order (most to least), followed by a few of the other Nordic or
Nordic-bounding nations and  also by the (former and present) Nazi
sympathizing nations in the Balkans, followed some distance back by the
European nations formerly claiming to be Aryan descendants and thereby
entitled to world domination, followed by a few remaining nations not listed
above by category but which contained Nazi sympathizers sufficient in
numbers to form Nazi puppet governments in WWII.

To decrease the length of this message, I recommend that the EUJF not only
dissolve but be tried by an expanded and this time truly re-educating and
honest Nurnberg Trial conducted by the USA and Israel, in which not only a
few top Nazis but also their sympathizers in the public and all the
sympathizers of Indiscriminate Terrorism and back-stabbing receive at the
minimal forced education and at the maximum their wish of meeting God face
to face.

Osher Doctorow


----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul Hoffman" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Friday, July 12, 2002 10:35 AM
Subject: *** RECOVERED EMAIL ***:  Re: The July 4 Murder of Israeli Tourists by an Egyptian National
in Los Angeles


> A truly interesting discussion.  There is statistics. There is logic, and
> there is truth.
> Still, there are those nagging phrases that get tossed into the political
> milieu that cloud and obfuscate.
> Take Kevin's phrase, "Illegal occupying power" for example.  Or the phrase
> "... the 1967 borders".
> The truth is that, prior to the existence of the PA, the territory in
> dispute never had "borders" , and the British were the "occupiers" of all
of
> it until they persuaded the UN to carve it into two areas; namely,
> Transjordan and Israel.
> Given that this move by the UN was acceptable under "international law",
> whatever that meant at the time, it is well known that the Arab states
> surrounding Israel at that time decided immediately to attack militarily
and
> throw the Jews into the sea--- which would have been a second holocaust
> within a single decade.
> More germane to the discussion is that these countries planned and
launched
> their attacks again and again-- and in 1967, when the UN asked the
Israelis
> for a cease fire, they coupled the demand with resolutions that required
the
> Israelis and the Arabs to NEGOTIATE secure and defensible borders... to
> which the Arab response was "no end to hostility and no negotiation" a
> position to which they held despite the statesmanship of Anwar Sadat.
> More recently, of course, we watched Jordan's decision to remove most of
the
> Palestinian refugees from their plate, simply by carving off the West Bank
> from their own land without naming a recipient.
> As a consequence, it defies logic to take the position that either the
> Palestinians or the Israelis are "occupying" these territories illegally.
> And it is an astounding footnote to the history of the area that a half
> century could go by while Arab and Palestinian leaders who profess to be
> anxious to settle the matter would so consistently refuse to negotiate the
> borders called for in the UN resolutions.
>
> Paul Hoffman
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Osher Doctorow" <[log in to unmask]>
> To: <[log in to unmask]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 10, 2002 12:17 PM
> Subject: The July 4 Murder of Israeli Tourists by an Egyptian National in
> Los Angeles
>
>
> > From: Osher Doctorow [log in to unmask], Wed. July 10, 2002 12:03PM
> >
> > Statistically, when Hitler took over nation after nation in Europe,
> somebody
> > should have raised an alarm.   However, statistics did not govern
> > Chamberlain's government.   Chamberlain governed by the seat of his
> trousers
> > and by the conviction that no matter how many times one is raped, one
> should
> > forgive the rapist.  This is not exactly what Christ had in mind
regarding
> > *turning the other cheek,* and these interpretation questions may be why
> we
> > have Statistics today.
> >
> > Most of you know what I am intending to say about the recent murder of
two
> > Israelis by an Egyptian national and the wounding of others at the El Al
> > ticket counter in Los Angeles (July 4).  So far, the FBI and police have
> > stated that there is no evidence that it is a *terrorist act*, but that
it
> > may possibly be a *hate crime,*  since the Egyptian national Moslem
hated
> > Israel and America.  Since you know what I am intending to say, I will
not
> > take your time to say it, but instead I will turn to some related
> questions.
> >
> > The Arab nations and Moslem indiscriminate terrorists which attacked
> Israel
> > since its founding in 1948 certainly supplied ample statistical evidence
> > that something is wrong with indiscriminate terror and that it is
> dangerous.
> > The pretext for the attacks was that the land was Palestine's and the
> > Arabs'.   This does not hold water as a statistical-probabilistic
> > causal/factor/cluster/discriminant explanation (one or more of the above
> or
> > others).   When Ancient Israel existed, there was no such thing as
Islam.
> > Islam began far, far later with Mohammed.   The inhabitants of their
> > surrounding territory were Canaanites and Philistines (no relation to
> > Palestinians) and other idol-worshippers, and if the Palestinians want
to
> > adopt idol worship, it will still not make them descendants of the
> original
> > inhabitants.  You can see where this is leading, so I will conclude
below.
> >
> > Finally, where does human kindness lead us to go as Statisticians?
What
> do
> > we do about the *poor starving downtrodden Palestinians*?    The
simplest
> > answer is to make them wealthy and part of their Moslem culture in the
> > places which are begging for immigration and have almost endless empty
> > lands - Saudi Arabia, Libya, and so on.  But those Moslem nations will
not
> > take in their relatives since that would destroy the pretext for
attacking
> > Israel.   The real war that Islam is carrying on, you see, is about 1.25
> > billion Moslems versus a few million Jews, and billions of acres of
Moslem
> > land versus a few thousand acres of Jewish land.   That is a strange
> > statistical discrepancy.  Our very statistical intuitions tell us that
the
> > balance is in the wrong direction.  It also tells us that if
> Fundamentalist
> > Islam cannot tolerate such few Jews, it is unlikely to eventually
tolerate
> a
> > few British and a few French *unbelievers*.   But one would have to pay
> > attention to Statistics.
> >
> > Osher Doctorow
> >
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