Dear Niklaus
your suggestions all make sense. I'm tending to think that it is supposed to
be a fast of some kind, because the case originates from Languedoc, and I'm
not sure I've come across anyone else being sent on pilgrimage to Rome (more
usually the long-distance pilgrimage was Compostella). But it's difficult to
establish even the contextualising information, that you quite rightly
suggest might aid translation: the deposition itself comes from the 1270s,
and the deponent denies having any contact with heretics. He is then shown a
letter purporting to be a record of testimony and penance given by him
before the inquisitor 'Brother Arnaud'. But he denies that the letter
actually pertains to him, claiming (apparently successfully) that it's just
someone who has the same name as him. The problems are therefore that (1) we
don't know how 'serious' a case his was; (2) we don't actually know the date
of the letter. IF 'Brother Arnaud' is interpreted as 'William Arnaud', this
puts it back in the late 1230s...
anyway: thanks for the help! Any other suggestions (from Nik or anyone else)
warmly welcomed,
cheers
john
> -----Original Message-----
> From: [log in to unmask]
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]]On Behalf Of Niklaus
> Schatzmann
> Sent: 18 June 2000 12:38
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: re: translation query
>
>
> John H. Arnold wrote:
>
> > I'm dealing with an inquisitorial deposition from the later
> > thirteenth century, wherein a deponent is shown by an inquisitor what
> > purports to be a letter from a previous inquisitor sentencing
> > the deponent.
> > The penance was to pay some alms to the poor and to make 'unam
> > quadragesimane Romae'. Any ideas what that might be? From
> context, one's
> > either guessing at a kind of Lenten fast, or perhaps a scribal
> > mistake for a
> > pilgrimage to Rome (the manuscript, btw, is from the Doat
> > collection, which
> > is a C17 copy of lost medieval texts, hence there's plenty of
> margin for
> > scribal error).
> > Many thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions!
> > cheers
> > john
> >
>
> Dear John
>
> My Latin will be much worse than yours, so I probaly can't help
> you with my
> language
> knowledge. :-) I indicate though that the term "quadragne(n)sima" was used
> for the
> 40-day-period of fasting before Easter. (E.Habel / F. Groebel.
> Mittellateinisches
> Glossar. Schöningh Paderborn 1989 (1959).
> But even if not the time before Easter should have been meant, a period of
> 20, 30 of 40 days of fasting was very common as inquisitiorial punishment.
> (see FLADE, PAUL. Das roemische Inquisitionsverfahren in Deutschland.
> Leipzip 1902,
> p. 116 ff.)
> If the sentence could be conntected with a pilgrimage to Rome
> depends on the
> the circumstances of the trial. Even if pilgrimages were quite common as
> additional
> punishment besides donations to the Church or, as in this case,
> to the poor,
> the
> distance of the journey - as the amount of money - depended on
> the guilt of
> the
> accused and penitent heretic. In "normal" cases, the pilgrimage
> was only to
> an nearby
> religious centre.
> So we mainly have to ask where the trial took place? If far away
> from Rome,
> the case of
> your heretic must have been extremely serious to force him to an
> pilgrimage
> there.
> (Indication for this would be the amount of money he had to give to the
> poor. Is it
> known?)
> If the trial was in Italy, the most probable correct version of
> the passage
> would be
> "unum quadragesimale (ieiunium) Romae": "a 40-day-fasting in
> Rome", but the
> scribal's mistakes would be legion in this case....
> Or the scribal omitted more than just one word and Romae refers to
> expression quite other
> than "ieiunium"... Hmmm .....
> Does any of these suggestions make sense?
>
> Anyway, best wishes
> Nik
>
> ---------------------
>
> lic. phil. Niklaus Schatzmann-Jenny
> Tel. und Fax: +41/ (01) 364 12 55
> email: [log in to unmask]
> email: [log in to unmask] (Unversität Zürich)
>
> >
> > Dear All
> > I wonder if I could beg your indulgence to ask advice on a tiny
> > bit of Latin
> > translation? I'm dealing with an inquisitorial deposition from
> the later
> > thirteenth century, wherein a deponent is shown by an inquisitor what
> > purports to be a letter from a previous inquisitor sentencing
> > the deponent.
> > The penance was to pay some alms to the poor and to make 'unam
> > quadragesimane Romae'. Any ideas what that might be? From
> context, one's
> > either guessing at a kind of Lenten fast, or perhaps a scribal
> > mistake for a
> > pilgrimage to Rome (the manuscript, btw, is from the Doat
> > collection, which
> > is a C17 copy of lost medieval texts, hence there's plenty of
> margin for
> > scribal error).
> > Many thanks in advance for any helpful suggestions!
> > cheers
> > john
> >
> >
> > Dr John H. Arnold
> > School of History
> > University of East Anglia
> > Norwich NR4 7TJ
> >
>
>
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