>Oriens wrote:
>There may be - though I've never given it much thought - a feeling that
>while the dead are not beyond God's mercy and we may legitimately pray
>for the forgiveness of their sins, the power of the Church Militant to
>absolve extends only to the Church Militant, i.e. to that minority of
>the members of the Church who are still on earth.

	That is, as well, the Orthodox understanding of the 
Sacramental  Confession and pronouncement of Absolution   What I 
suspect to be the source of the confusion amongst the Latin and Greek 
legates at Lyons II was precisely wordings such as those you cite. 
While the Orthodox prayers for the departed are equally earnest and 
expansive in asking that God's mercy be extended to the departed, the 
particular prayer to which I referred in my original post, and  which 
may have been the source irritant runs ( and is even referred to as 
the 'Prayer of Absolution ):
	"Our Lord Jesus Christ, by His Divine Grace, as also by the 
gift and power vouchsafed unto His Holy Disciples and Apostles, that 
they should bind and loose the sins of men: For He said to them: 
Receive the Holy Spirit: Whosoever sins you remit, they are remitted; 
and whosoever sins you retain they are retained. And whatsoever you 
shall bind or loose upon earth shall be bound or loosed also in 
heaven. By that same power, also, transmitted to us from them, this 
my spiritual child _N.__ is absolved, through me, unworthy though I 
be, from all things  wherein as mortal he/she has sinned against God, 
whether in word or deed, whether knowingly or through ignorance..'

There would seem to be just cause for the Latin legates to hear this 
as a pronouncement of Absolution. The prayer then continues with what 
might have been heard as even more problematical:

... " If he/she be under  the ban or excommunication of a Bishop, or 
of a Priest;..."

(This must have raised concerns for the Latin legates)

"... or has incurred the curse of his/her Father or Mother; or has 
fallen under his/her own curse; or has sinned by any oath; or has 
been bound, as man, by any sins whatsoever, but has repented thereof, 
with contrition of heart; he/she is now absolved  from all those 
faults and bonds. May all of those things which have proceeded from 
the weakness of his/her mortal nature be consigned to oblivion, and 
remitted to him/her; Through  His loving kindness; through the 
prayers of our Most Holy, Blessed and Glorious Lady, the Theotokos 
and Ever-Virgin Mary, of the Holy. Glorious and All-Praised Apostles, 
and of all the Saints."
One might readily see how the Latins assumed this to be equivalent to 
Sacramental Absolution. The Greek Legates, of course, insisted it was 
not!
I assumed  that the position of the Latin Church ( 13thc) stood 
equally and firmly opposed to dispensing the Sacraments to the Dead. 
Am I incorrect in assuming this? If not, then what texts, Canonical 
or other wise might have constituted their proof-texts?
Grateful for your assistance:
Josef Gulka



Josef Gulka
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  Tel: 215- 732-8420
Fax (215) 732-8420


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