medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
This brings up another topic. I had always been given to understand
that hair and nails
continued to grow on a corpse for some time after death, giving rise to
useful relics if the
body was disinterred.
However, I was recently told that this is a myth, the flesh (of a
presumably well-preserved
body; the one I have in mind buried in salty and damp soil) recedes, so
hair and nails only
APPEAR longer. Can anyone elucidate?
Meg
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Grover
Zinn (imap)
Sent: Friday, January 25, 2008 1:16 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 25. January/relics
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
culture
Interesting. I would have expected the possibility of hair or nail
clippings to have been "collected" during lifetime (also wondered
about Padre Pio--interesing to hear), but did not know there was
evidence from such an early period for "living hair", etc.. And I
didn't remember this about Paul at all. There may be more in Ramsey
Macmullen, Christianizing the Roman Empire (New Haven: Yale UP,
1986)------(since he stresses that the movement spread not so much by
public preaching, and the like, but rather by thaumaturgical and other
moments of inbreaking "sacred power" i.e. the sick family member cured
by the Christian who is brought to the house by the slave girl working
in the kitchen, if I recall his hypothetical example)
Some of the secondary relics (like clothing) could be "after death" as
well as before unless there is some corroborating evidence; same for
hair and nail clippings (and the rather gruesome event George F.
recounts; of course, there are Teresa of Avila's sandal and her ring
finger in separate reliquaries in Avila.--the sandal is in a
reliquary, not just in a display case)
Proleptic relics is a very interesting topic from the perspective of
holiness, its power and the perception of it and possession of it by
contact with those who are pereceived as holy and thus powerful (in
the ways of the spirit, not the world :-) )
best
grover
Grover A. Zinn
William H. Danforth Professor of Religion (emeritus)
former Associate Dean, College of Arts and Sciences
Oberlin College
Oberlin, OH 44074
440-775-8866 (department)
[log in to unmask]
On Jan 25, 2008, at 12:37 PM, George FERZOCO wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> You're right, George:
>
> Acts 19:
>
> 11 (Vulgate) virtutesque non quaslibet Deus faciebat per manus
> Pauli / (Douay/Rheims/Challoner) And God wrought by the hand of Paul
> more than common miracles.
> 12 ita ut etiam super languidos deferrentur a corpore eius sudaria
> vel semicintia et recedebant ab eis languores et spiritus nequam
> egrediebantur / So that even there were brought from his body to the
> sick, handkerchiefs and aprons, and the diseases departed from them,
> and the wicked spirits went out of them.
>
> Alter Geo.
> --
> George FERZOCO
> [log in to unmask]
>
>
> On 25 Jan 2008, at 17:28, George R. Hoelzeman wrote:
>
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>>
>> I seem to recall a passage in the Acts of the Apostles that makes
>> reference to people carrying off hankerchiefs which had been
>> touched to or blessed by
>> Paul which were used to heal infirmities.
>>
>> Sadly, I don't recall the exact passage at the moment. Somewhere
>> in chapter 19 I want to say, but could be wrong.
>>
>> George
>>
>> On Fri, 25 Jan 2008 11:57:47 -0000, Madeleine Gray wrote:
>>
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>
>>> I do remember seeing in a relic collection in Venice (very vague
>>> memory,
>>> it was a long time ago) bloodstained napkins said to be relics of a
>>> number of stigmatics. I think, though, that they were all post-
>>> medieval
>>> (mainly C18-C19, I think) - but these must surely have been
>>> collected
>>> and distributed during their lifetimes?
>>
>>> And OK, not bodily relics, but there must be lots of examples of
>>> collection and distribution of contact relics.
>>
>>> Maddy
>>
>>> Dr Madeleine Gray, in the foothills of God's golden county of Gwent
>>
>>> Senior Lecturer in History
>>
>>> School of Education/Ysgol Addysg
>>
>>> University of Wales, Newport/Prifysgol Cymru, Casnewydd
>>
>>> Caerleon Campus/Campws Caerllion, PO /Blwch Post 179
>>
>>> Newport/Casnewydd NP18 3YG, Wales/Cymru
>>
>>> Tel: +44 (0)1633.432675
>>
>>
>>> 'I ask you for help. And all you give me is ...papers!'
>>> (Magda in Gian Carlo Menotti's The Consul)
>>
>>>
>>
>>> History at University of Wales, Newport:
http://timezone.newport.ac.uk
>>> Gwent County History Association website:
>>> http://gwent-county-history-association.newport.ac.uk
>>> Cistercian Way: http://cistercian-way.newport.ac.uk
>>
>>
>>>
>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
>>> religious
>>> culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of
>>> Marjorie
>>> Greene
>>> Sent: 25 January 2008 05:27
>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>> Subject: Re: [M-R] saints of the day 25. January/relics
>>
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>
>>> "But are there documented instances of the proleptic
>>> distribution of relics?"
>>
>>> Depends on what you mean by "documented," "distribution" and
>>> "relics."
>>> My husband visited Padre Pio's village in the 1960s and people (not
>>> Church-affiliated as far as he knew) were selling (10K lira) napkins
>>> with Padre Pio's (alleged) blood on them.
>>> Take this non-medieval and anecdotal tale for what it's worth. For
>>> some,
>>> analogies between today's behavior and that of the MA are spurious.
>>> Does anyone know if there are relics of the blood of Saint Francis
>>> collected in his lifetime?
>>> MG
>>
>>
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>>
>>>
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