medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Dillon <[log in to unmask]>
> On Monday, March 14, 2005, at 8:02 am, chris crockett wrote:
> > > http://www.abbazianovalesa.org/s.Eldrado.htm
> > > http://www.vdveer.myadsl.nl/assets/images/novalesa1.jpg
> > > http://www.abbazianovalesa.org/abside_eldrado.htm
> > from what little i can see, the style looks very close to that of
St. Angelo in Formis (which means Montecassino), from about the same time.
> > not surprisingly.
> I am a little surprised. The style _is_ very close to that in evidence
at Sant'Angelo in Formis, e.g.
> http://www.storiadellarte.com/periodi/romanico/archromanica/formis2.htm
> TinyURL for this: http://tinyurl.com/5xcph
> http://www.storiadellarte.com/periodi/romanico/archromanica/formis.htm
> TinyURL for this: http://tinyurl.com/69au4
> But Sant'Angelo in Formis is located outside of Capua in northern
Campania, in Italian terms a rather long chalk away from Novalesa in the
subalpine valleys of western Piedmont (or even from Novalesa's
eleventh-century mother house at Breme in the Lomellina near Pavia).
being Severely Geographically Challenged where Italy is concerned, i can only
take your point.
> Here's a view -- I wish I had a better -- of the late eleventh-century
apse frescoes of the patriarcal basilica at Aquileia, also in northern
Italy:
> http://www.sitiunesco.it/pix/aquileia/abside_affresco3_b.jpg
> That to me is in a rather different style. Here's a detail:
> http://www.sitiunesco.it/pix/aquileia/abside_affresco2_b.jpg
> All three sites, by the way, are in regions of Italy that in the later
eleventh century were politically quite distinct one from another.
yes, the styles definitely do look quite different, from what little we can
see.
the question of how particular styles end up at particular places is a sticky
one, each place being sui generis, with its own peculiar circumstances which
came into play.
to say nothing of the immense complication which Lost Monuments throws into
the works.
i'll try and Noodle the Question around a bit, see if anything floats to the
top.
unincumbered by any knowledge whatever of what's going on in Italy, i can
confidently extrapolate from what i *think* i see going on in France and
project it mercilessly beyond the Alps.
the French experience in this period (c. 1050-1150) is complicated enough ; i
strongly suspect that Italy is a Real Mess.
Geographical Proximity was definitely a factor, obviously.
the various "schools" of Romanesque sculpture and painting (mostly ms
painting, but with some murals surviving) were sorted out by art hysterians in
the late 19th and early 20th c. and, while there is some Odor of Construct
present there if it is applied too rigidly, the Construct itself is a useful
one.
the surviving artifacts from the monument-rich regions of Provence, Burgundy
and the Saintonge, for example, clearly have a stylistic "cohesion" which is
beyond mere chance.
there are, literally, scores of churches surviving in, for example, Burgundy
which have portals and/or capitals --figural and foliate-- which are
remarkably homogeneous in style ; and we must imagine that at least as many
(or even a *vastly* larger number) have not survived.
sometime we like to think that we can see the work of particular "Masters" or,
at least "workshops", at more than one place; but the sad reality is that the
number of times we can do this with any real confidence is rather small and
doing so certainly requires a *lot* more Methodological Discipline than most
art hysterians are willing to invest in the project.
but there clearly *is* a Stylistic Homogeneity in Burgundian Romanesque
sculpture.
http://www.art-roman.net/bourgogne/bourgogne.htm
i've always thought that this was due to the simple fact that Romanesque
sculpture is, above all, a "Visionary" phenomenon --the artist "conceived" or
"imagined" the subject he was to sculpt (or paint) in his mind before actually
executing it in the Phenomenal world.
a rather straightforward way of looking at it, seems to me.
from this simple observation it follows that we might ask, "from whence
commeth the 'form language' of this 'Vision'?"
for me, the most likely answer is "Monastic Meditational Discipline".
in Burgundy, of course, this means Cluny.
and a very, very large percentage of the surviving romanesque sculpture in
Burgundy can be associated with Cluny, usally as part of its extensive system
of priories.
this works both ways, and we can (perhaps) reconstruct parts of the works
which once existed at the (mostly destroyed) Mother House by looking at the
"echoes" of them surviving in the priories.
the relatively spectacular frescos of the very modest priory of
Berze-la-Ville, not far from Cluny (it was a vacation spot for the Abbot, i
believe)
http://www.art-roman.net/bourgogne/bourgogne.htm
very likely reflect the style of the lost frescos once in Cluny II (or is it
III?).
this is, i believe, an analogous situation to the one we have at St. Angelo in
Formis, viz-a-viz the lost frescos at Montecassino.
except that the St. Angelo frescos are really, really *first* rate. my All
Time Favorites, as a matter of fact.
the problem with the Priories Theory for Cluny is that it doesn't seem to have
extended much beyond Burgundy.
the mid-12th c. Cluniac priory of St. Martin-des-Champs, in the fields around
Paris, is very much an "early gothic" structure, which means, ultimately, part
of the Soissonais "romanesque" Stylistic Sequence.
we don't know what the earlier church at St. Martin's looked like; but there
is a Cluniac priory in the diocese of Chartres at Nogent-le-Rotrou which has,
as best i can make out, nothing "Cluniac" about it in either its architecture
or sculpture.
otOh, i believe that there is some evidence that [some of] the priories of
Marmoutier --at least in the Chartrain region-- felt the artistic influences
of the Mother House.
the portal on the priory of St. Martin-de-Brethencourt (near Dourdan) has
curious foliate caps which remind me very much of those found in the Touraine,
as well as of the "decorations" which i've seen as part of quite a few verso
endorsements of Marmoutier charters from the retion.
so, i wouldn't rule out entirely the possibility that a Mother House could
influence a Daughter quite far removed geographically, and certainly a Mother
as prominent and powerful as Montecassino.
i seem to have wandered more than a bit.... lost the thread.... mind
melting..... arrrgggg....
c
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