David, that is not what I meant. I am aware of this. But it is a good point
to make.
larry
Dr L Brownstein
[alt-e:] mailto:[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of BYRNE D.S.
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2016 5:11 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: government taxing itself
Bizarrely on a day to day basis the UK government does sort of tax itself by
charging non recoverable VAT to public bodies. I have seen more than one
excellent Edwardian school demolished because VAT is charged on
refurbishment of buildings but not on new build so new build came in
cheaper.
David Byrne
________________________________________
From: email list for Radical Statistics [[log in to unmask]] on behalf
of Dr L Brownstein [[log in to unmask]]
Sent: 09 September 2016 16:55
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: "Corbynism after Corbyn"
Robert, thanks for the kind words. It is hard to know where to begin
sometimes. But in your example it seems to me that they may be drawing an
implicit analogy between a household and a government. Households are
nothing like governments in one quite special way: households are currency
users who have to earn in order to spend, while sovereign governments (I am
excluding the Eurozone) are national currency issuers (taking note of Paul's
examples that look like exceptions to this) who have to spend before anyone
can earn. Government has to spend before it can tax, while households have
to earn before than can pay tax. Government does not tax itself. There is a
deep asymmetry between these two institutions.
When someone says one pays tax and then gets services in return, it may also
be that they are thinking of the kind of responsibilities that one has as a
member of a community or society. While one's taxes do not fund the
services, one might think that if you do not pay your taxes, that is, do not
contribute in some way to your society when you have the ability to do so,
you perhaps should not be entitled to the services. (I am not endorsing this
oversimplified viewpoint, only trying to get at what people may be thinking
in Robert's example.) Taxes do serve valuable social functions, though the
underwriting of government expenditure is not one of them.
Marx had a nice sound bite for this: from each according to his abilities,
to each according to his needs. (It was a patriarchal time.) In these two
ways of trying to get at what such people may be thinking, I am guessing, of
course.
Robert, I don't know whether this even begins to answer your quite
reasonable query.
larry
Dr L Brownstein
[alt-e:] mailto:[log in to unmask]
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
Behalf Of Moore, Robert
Sent: Friday, September 9, 2016 3:14 PM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: "Corbynism after Corbyn"
Very grateful to Larry for his explanations abnd references. Some of his
points can be hard to grasp - like soap in the shower they slip away if you
grab too hard! Much of my engagement with these issues is in more public
arenas now, where people usually say 'You only get what you pay for'. It
seems self-evident to them that you pay tax and get services in return. I
hardly know where to begin in the face of this common sense view expressed
by responsible and well-meaning people.
Robert
Professor Robert Moore
School of Sociology and Social Policy
Eleanor Rathbone Building
The University of Liverpool
L69 7ZA
Telephone and fax: 44 (0) 1352 714456
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