Like.
-----Original Message-----
>From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>Sent: May 6, 2014 7:47 PM
>To: [log in to unmask]
>Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
>
>I did Mark. The flippant might not. I could paint with a very broad brush
>and ask: has poetry become corrupt? and answer: Yes. There are
>qualifications - one, it has always been corrupt anyhow, but not to the
>deadening degree we now enjoy. Two: its present fall from grace is
>symptomatic of the wider world around it, poetry isn't just the Cinderella
>of the Arts, it's an Ugly Sister playing her part.
>As an antidote to present despair I could recommend a penitential
>re-reading of Johnson's 'Lives of the Poets', other than the magnificent
>anticipation of Dostoevsky in the Life of Savage and the notable disputable
>essay on Milton. The Great Cham reminds you, from his Tory fog, that it has
>always been bad - all unmemorable somebodys seeking patronage. The problem
>now is the industrial scale of the crap.
>
>best
>
>dave
>
>
>On 7 May 2014 00:27, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> David: read my post as rueful.
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >Sent: May 6, 2014 6:47 PM
>> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
>> >
>> >My dear Mark, I find that a bit difficult to deal with: I could be among
>> >the recipients. The history of 'caritas' is truly complex, my own take is
>> >that it means that which is freely given, unconditional a la Simone Weil.
>> >My estimation of poetry is that at its rare heights it too is a giveaway,
>> a
>> >no strings attached. The rest is most definitely not silence, more a lot
>> of
>> >noise and muttering :)
>> >
>> >
>> >On 6 May 2014 18:45, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Perhaps if they could be paid in kind--so many ounces of food per hour.
>> >>
>> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >Sent: May 6, 2014 1:38 PM
>> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
>> >> >
>> >> >Consider the 'Like' button pressed, Mark!
>> >> >
>> >> >Although the 'volunteers' are mostly people on minimal benefits and if
>> >> they
>> >> >were paid of course the benefits would disappear with a massive
>> 'whoosh'
>> >> >and a huge 'thump'.
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >On 6 May 2014 18:31, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> I suppose we could start a charity that collects money to pay
>> >> volunteers.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> >Sent: May 6, 2014 1:26 PM
>> >> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> >> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >Something like that is supposed to be starting here (as of March
>> just
>> >> >> gone)
>> >> >> >see
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-data-release-opens-the-lid-on-charity-finances
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >but it's very hard to unravel. I recently went as a 'lay
>> >> representative'
>> >> >> to
>> >> >> >an all-day event on presentations from interested charities for some
>> >> >> >lottery monies, I won't be too specific. What really stood out to me
>> >> and
>> >> >> >other 'panelists' was that in each case the funds asked for were
>> >> solely to
>> >> >> >support a paid co-ordinator and for their 'office space'. It was
>> >> assumed
>> >> >> in
>> >> >> >every presentation that the 'actual work' would be done by
>> >> 'volunteers',
>> >> >> >which as you know increasingly means people working for nothing
>> under
>> >> >> >compulsion.
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >btw a 2011 list I saw, via the Charity Commision, gave, as the
>> second
>> >> >> >highest funded charity in the country, the Arts Council! -
>> >> >> >
>> >> >>
>> >>
>> http://www.charityinsight.com/news/income-generation/the-top-100-charity-index-
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >best
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >dave
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >On 6 May 2014 17:59, Mark Weiss <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> In this country charities have to make public the percentage of
>> >> >> donations
>> >> >> >> that actually support the charity's ostensible goals.
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> -----Original Message-----
>> >> >> >> >From: David Bircumshaw <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> >> >> >Sent: May 6, 2014 12:50 PM
>> >> >> >> >To: [log in to unmask]
>> >> >> >> >Subject: Re: plagiarism and poetry
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >I had not known theft had undone so many.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >wait a sec ... that's by ... oh and ...
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >Francis Bacon reportedly told Queen Elizabeth, upon her demanding
>> >> that
>> >> >> the
>> >> >> >> >author of Richard II be tried for treason, that he should
>> 'rather be
>> >> >> >> >charged with larceny, for he hath stolen most of his lines from
>> >> >> Cornelius
>> >> >> >> >Tacitus'.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >You can though, earn a reasonable middle-class income via
>> acquiring
>> >> the
>> >> >> >> >status of a poet, through creative writing teaching etc etc,
>> which
>> >> , as
>> >> >> >> one
>> >> >> >> >recently recognised 'poet' put it, is much 'better than the
>> world of
>> >> >> >> work'.
>> >> >> >> >So it becomes awfully convenient to appropriate material for your
>> >> >> claim to
>> >> >> >> >status. In that respect the articles are misleading - people do
>> >> make a
>> >> >> >> >living out of poetry nowadays, far more so than in the past.
>> >> >> >> >It, and not plagiarism, is very similar to what has happened to
>> >> >> charities,
>> >> >> >> >where the main financial thrust is to support paid
>> 'co-ordinators'.
>> >> >> >> >Churches of course are bedevilled by jobsworths - I recall a
>> friend
>> >> >> >> showing
>> >> >> >> >me a parish newsletter where the incumbent had written 'it is the
>> >> >> purpose
>> >> >> >> >of a church and its congregation to provide for and support a
>> >> priest'.
>> >> >> >> >I don't think the poetical plagiarists write for 'fame' - but
>> for a
>> >> >> >> >comfortable recognition in a quiet corner of happy unseen
>> feeding.
>> >> Like
>> >> >> >> >fish, in the hidden parts of a pond.
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >best
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >dave
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >On 6 May 2014 00:23, Halvard Johnson <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> So many? I know of a couple ... well, maybe a few.
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> On Monday, May 5, 2014, Max Richards <[log in to unmask]>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> > Laziness, panic, narcissism, low self-esteem, ambition,
>> >> deliberate
>> >> >> >> >> > self-sabotage: Why so many poets are plagiarizing…
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > http://www.poetryfoundation.org/article/247130
>> >> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >> > Ruth Graham: Word Theft:
>> >> >> >> >> > 2013 the year of the plagiarists
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >> --
>> >> >> >> >> :: from the desk of Halvard Johnson ::
>> >> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >
>> >> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
>> >> >> >> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> >> >> >> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> >> >> >> >The Animal Subsides
>> >> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> >> >> >> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>> >> >> >> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
>> >> >> >> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>> >> >> >> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>> >> >> >> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
>> >> >> >>
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >
>> >> >> >--
>> >> >> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
>> >> >> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> >> >> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> >> >> >The Animal Subsides
>> http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> >> >> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>> >> >> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
>> >> >> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>> >> >> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>> >> >> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
>> >> >>
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> >--
>> >> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
>> >> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> >> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> >> >The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> >> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>> >> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
>> >> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>> >> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>> >> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
>> >>
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >--
>> >David Joseph Bircumshaw
>> >Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>> >http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>> >The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>> >Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>> >Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
>> >twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>> >blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>> >Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
>>
>
>
>
>--
>David Joseph Bircumshaw
>Website and A Chide's Alphabet
>http://www.staplednapkin.org.uk
>The Animal Subsides http://www.arrowheadpress.co.uk/books/animal.html
>Facebook: http://www.facebook.com/david.bircumshaw
>Tumblr: http://zantikus.tumblr.com/
>twitter: http://twitter.com/bucketshave
>blog: http://groggydays.blogspot.com/
>Leicester Poetry Society: http://www.poetryleicester.com
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