JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH Archives


EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH Archives

EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH Archives


EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH Home

EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH Home

EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH  May 2013

EVIDENCE-BASED-HEALTH May 2013

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: why did CMAJ publish this study?

From:

"Steve Simon, P.Mean Consulting" <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Steve Simon, P.Mean Consulting

Date:

Thu, 16 May 2013 15:49:09 -0500

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (255 lines)

One problem with critical appraisal is that we are only critical when we
already disagree with the conclusion. If there's a result we don't like,
we proponents of Evidence-Based Medicine become some of the harshest and
hardest to please people. I'm afraid we may have an example here, as 
evidenced by Michael Power's comments.

I am critiquing Dr. Power's comments, not out of any love for
Naturopathy, but rather because it illustrates two important points for
Evidence Based Medicine.

First, allegations of fraud or even insinuations of fraud have no place
in the critical appraisal of a journal article. Fraud exists, but there
is no tool in the Evidence-Based Medicine tool kit for ferreting it out.

Second, arguing that a particular data analysis choice was wrong is a 
poor way to conduct a critical appraisal. Most medically trained people 
are unfairly mistrustful of legitimate statistical methodologies. Also, 
the emphasis of critical appraisal should be mostly on how the data was 
collected. If you collect the wrong data, it doesn't matter what 
analysis you choose. Furthermore, if you collect the data well, almost 
all reasonable analyses will tell you pretty much the same thing.

I also want to highlight Dr. Power's comments because this 
hypercriticism is a bigger problem for most proponents of Naturopathy 
and other forms of alternative medicine. There's a lot of mistrust of 
published research that prevents proponents of alternative medicine from 
weeding out the worst and most dangerous aspects of their practices. 
They take legitimate concerns about financial conflicts of interest by 
drug companies as evidence that all studies of pharmaceutical 
interventions are invalid. They disregard serious and carefully run 
studies that show negative results for alternative medicine by applying 
criticisms that are never considered for the positive studies.

> Randomization was conducted by the Canadian College of Naturopathic
> Medicine.

It's possible that there was some tampering with the randomization list,
but in almost every study I am familiar with, the randomization is
"controlled" by someone who may be tempted to commit fraud. We let drug
companies, for example, control the randomization of their clinical
trials.

There's a legitimate concern that this comment fails to mention 
directly. The authors should have used concealed allocation. So this is 
a weakness of the study.

> Participants were selected on the basis of higher ratios of total
> cholesterol to HDL cholesterol - because cholesterol measurements
> are quite variable, and selection seems to have been done on only
> one measurement, this would have introduced a risk of bias from
> "regression to the mean".

As someone else has already noted, regression to the mean is not a
possible source of bias.

> "The naturopathic doctors collected all biometric and validated
> questionnaire measures", and were not blinded to study group.

This is an odd comment, because Dr. Power misses the even greater threat 
to validity, the failure to blind the patients to treatment status.

> Tables 1 (baseline) and 2 (results) are not comparable. First, table
> 1 shows data plus/minus standard deviations, while table 2 shows data
> plus/minus standard errors of the means.

This is not a source of bias. Should they have been consistent and
always reported a standard deviation? I would say yes, but quite
honestly many papers follow this format. Certainly the tables are
labelled clearly enough.

My complaint is different. The authors should have computed a Number 
Needed to Treat in Table 2. That is far more important than whether a 
number is a standard deviation or a standard error.

> Secondly, and most problematically, table 1 shows real data, i.e.
> data with real numerators and denominators, while table 2 shows
> imagined, or at least engineered data - the real numbers have been
> adjusted for baseline measure of outcome variables, and missing data
> have been created by "a multiple imputation".

"Imagined data"? "Engineered data"?  What the authors did was to use 
"repeated-measures analysis of covariance in a mixed model by including 
the baseline value as a covariate for the continuous data and a 
generalized estimating equations approach for the binary data." This is 
a rather technical detail, but it falls clearly in the realm of standard 
statistical practice. If you do a PubMed search, for example for 
"generalized estimating equations" you will find thousands of 
publications, such as

Rogatko A, Babb JS, Wang H, Slifker MJ, Hudes GR. Patient
characteristics compete with dose as predictors of acute treatment
toxicity in early phase clinical trials. Clin. Cancer Res.
2004;10(14):4645–4651. doi:10.1158/1078-0432.CCR-03-0535.
http://clincancerres.aacrjournals.org/content/10/14/4645.long

Go to Amazon and you will find several books with the title "Generalized
Estimating Equations" written by prominent statisticians.

Multiple imputation is also a well accepted statistical methodology. It
sounds bad. To impute an unobserved value is surely a bad thing, our
intuition tell us. Well, our intuition is wrong. The imputation is done
using well established statistical methodologies.

It's easy enough to establish the reasonableness of multiple imputation. 
Take a data set that has no dropouts. Randomly introduce some dropouts 
and then apply multiple imputation. What you will find is that the 
multiply imputed results are consistent with the results with no 
dropouts. The confidence intervals are wider, of course, as they should 
be, but the method introduces no systematic bias, under most reasonable 
scenarios.

There are hundreds of references to imputation on PubMed, such as

Vinnard C, Wileyto EP, Bisson GP, Winston CA. First Use of Multiple
Imputation with the National Tuberculosis Surveillance System. Epidemiol
Res Int. 2012;2013. doi:10.1155/2013/875234.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3645492/

Again there are several books at Amazon on this topic published by
prominent statisticians. It's also worth noting that the alternative to
multiple imputation is simply ignoring the missing data and this
effectively imputes a value as well, but a value that presumes that
people with missing values are no different than people without missing
values (technically, the term for this is "missing completely at random").

As a statistician, I find it disheartening that use of well-established
statistical methodologies are considered weaknesses of a study.

> This data engineering is particularly problematic given the opacity
> of the imputation process and the 30% drop out rate. With a 30% drop
> out rate the missing data rate would be > 30%. I wonder why a table 3
> with real outcome data was not published? If it had been, we would be
> able to see whethere or not the data engineering had created
> statistically significant results.

Now, I suspect that most people reading this list consider all advanced
statistical methods as being opaque. That's why I get paid more than the
minimum wage when I consult on statistical issues. But, really, this
comment could be applied to almost any research publication.

The 30% drop out rate is more troublesome, of course, and does represent
a legitimate criticism of the study.

As far as publishing a table with "real outcome data" this is not done
often enough, in my opinion. The correct term for this is "crude
estimate" because that's what it is. There is value in seeing this
number. If there is a discrepancy, however, between the crude estimate
and the adjusted estimate, anyone who trusts statistics as an
established and carefully tested methodology would prefer the adjusted
estimate.

> This seems to be the first trial of its kind - and we know that
> first publications often turn out to have results that are more
> extreme than subsequent trials.

This is an excellent comment. I agree 100%.

> The response to these issues, especially the data engineering,
> should have been to adjust the confidence intervals (i.e. widen
> them). But I can only speculate that the reason this was not done is
> that all significant differences would have evaporated faster than
> n-butyl glycol.

Given that the process is opaque, you have no idea whether the
confidence intervals have been appropriately widened. For all you know,
the confidence intervals might be too wide! So why all this mistrust? Do
you have an equal amount of mistrust when a study in Oncology (see the
first reference above) uses generalized estimating equations? Do you
have an equal amount of mistrust when a study in Tuberculosis uses
multiple imputation?

Maybe the field of Naturopathy is rife with fraud, but I have seen no
empirical evidence of this. Other fields in alternative medicine do have
problems, of course.

But an important issue here is that fraud is almost never captured
during a critical appraisal by an outside expert. It is caught by a
whistleblower on the inside or it is caught by a formal audit. For the
average person, there is no way that you can look at a publication and
tell it is fraudulent.

So, assessment of potential for fraud do not belong in the critical
appraisal step of evidence-based medicine. This is a bitter pill to
swallow (pun intended), as we know of many prominent cases of serious
research fraud. But none of them, as far as I know, were discovered by
someone like Michael Power or me.

Fraud is perhaps too strong a word. Perhaps Dr. Power was implying
something more subtle, such as running ten different analyses and
reporting the one with the smallest p-value. Or choosing a statistical
approach which is known to exaggerate the differences between groups.

Given the opacity of most statistical analyses, however, you have no
serious option here. If you mistrust generalized estimating equations
because they could be manipulated to produce bogus findings, well that
would potentially be true for anything more complex than a t-test. And
to be critical would require (if you are consistent) a rejection of
almost all currently published research.

There's an even more fundamental problem here. Dr. Power makes a mistake
that is fairly common in critical appraisal. He is focusing on how the
data was analyzed more than on how it was collected. Critical appraisal,
must look at research design issues first. Debating the merits of the
log rank test versus Cox regression is rarely helpful in my opinion.

Furthermore, there is a wealth to criticize in this article, but none of
it relates to the data analysis per se.

First, there is the issue of blinding.

Second, the intervention is highly heterogenous and poorly controlled.

Third, the dropout rate is high.

Fourth, the authors relied on a surrogate outcome.

Fifth, the treatment group got more attention than the control group.

Sixth, there are a large number of exclusions prior to randomization. Of
the 1125 patients screened, only 246 made it to randomization.

Seventh, there was no concealed allocation (e.g., no sequentially
numbered opaque envelopes).

Eighth, there was no discussion of whether the changes were clinically
important (e.g., no NNTs).

The strengths of the study are the use of randomization, intent to treat
analysis, and a reasonably long follow-up time (though two years would
have been better). In spite of Dr. Power's comments, I would argue that
the thoroughness of the statistical analysis, especially the use of
multiple imputation is another strength.

Although the weaknesses are troublesome, some (e.g., blinding) are a 
thorn in the side of many research studies. Almost all device trials, 
for example, are unblinded. Others (high dropout rate) are not all that
uncommon in other research areas. A 30% dropout rate is too high, but 
the standard that I use (no more than 10% dropouts) is almost never met 
in any long term trial.

All in all, I would call this a good study, but not a definitive study. 
Eight weaknesses and three or four strengths is actually better than 
average, in my experience. None of the weaknesses is so serious as to 
invalidate the entire study.

I'm not rushing out to visit a Naturopath on the basis of this study, 
but it is an interesting finding and indicates that additional research 
in this area might be helpful.

There's a lot more to debate here, but I've gone on for far too long.

Steve Simon, [log in to unmask], Standard Disclaimer.
Sign up for the Monthly Mean, the newsletter that
dares to call itself average at www.pmean.com/news

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

April 2024
March 2024
February 2024
January 2024
December 2023
November 2023
October 2023
September 2023
August 2023
July 2023
June 2023
May 2023
April 2023
March 2023
February 2023
January 2023
December 2022
November 2022
October 2022
September 2022
August 2022
July 2022
June 2022
May 2022
April 2022
March 2022
February 2022
January 2022
December 2021
November 2021
October 2021
September 2021
August 2021
July 2021
June 2021
May 2021
April 2021
March 2021
February 2021
January 2021
December 2020
November 2020
October 2020
September 2020
August 2020
July 2020
June 2020
May 2020
April 2020
March 2020
February 2020
January 2020
December 2019
November 2019
October 2019
September 2019
August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
December 2006
November 2006
October 2006
September 2006
August 2006
July 2006
June 2006
May 2006
April 2006
March 2006
February 2006
January 2006
December 2005
November 2005
October 2005
September 2005
August 2005
July 2005
June 2005
May 2005
April 2005
March 2005
February 2005
January 2005
December 2004
November 2004
October 2004
September 2004
August 2004
July 2004
June 2004
May 2004
April 2004
March 2004
February 2004
January 2004
December 2003
November 2003
October 2003
September 2003
August 2003
July 2003
June 2003
May 2003
April 2003
March 2003
February 2003
January 2003
December 2002
November 2002
October 2002
September 2002
August 2002
July 2002
June 2002
May 2002
April 2002
March 2002
February 2002
January 2002
December 2001
November 2001
October 2001
September 2001
August 2001
July 2001
June 2001
May 2001
April 2001
March 2001
February 2001
January 2001
December 2000
November 2000
October 2000
September 2000
August 2000
July 2000
June 2000
May 2000
April 2000
March 2000
February 2000
January 2000
December 1999
November 1999
October 1999
September 1999
August 1999
July 1999
June 1999
May 1999
April 1999
March 1999
February 1999
January 1999
December 1998
November 1998
October 1998
September 1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

For help and support help@jisc.ac.uk

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager