medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: Rosemary Hayes-Milligan and Andrew Milligan
> Yes I think that what Christopher is querying here is the use of the word
(in Latin or English) to signify place of enclosure rather than body of
religious as described by Cate?
basically, Christopher was only querying why it was that he had no memory of
the term being used to refer to *male* institutions --either as a "place of
enclosure" (whatever that might mean) or a "body of religious."
that question is, of course, not answerable by anyone on this list.
> Certainly, in England, the phrase 'abbas/prior et conventus' was common well
before 1250. See, for example, the registers of Hugh of Wells, bishop of
Lincoln (1209-35).
i suspected as much, not believing that Brother Briggs, imaginative fellow
though he certainly is, would have made its usage up out of Whole Cloth.
From: Madeleine Gray
>Monastic charters are usually in the name of 'abbas et conventus de ...',
aren't they?
not in Christopher's Dim Memory.
which seems to be confirmed somewhat by a quick search for "convent*" in the
several hundred (11th-12th c.) charters of the O.S.B. abbey of St. Peter of
Chartres --the largest monastic _fonds_ in the diocese of Chartres published
in a single cartulary.
leaving out the non-relevant instances of "conventio/conventione," it seems
that there are *only* these hits:
1) Ego frater Udo, monasterii sancti Petri Carnoti humilis abbas, et totus
ejusdem congregationis conventus, nosse volumus...
2) [1146] Ego frater Udo, Dei gratia, cenobii sancti Petri Carnoti abbas, et
totus cui presideo fratrum conventus...
3) Hoc quoque actoritate omnipotentis Dei et sanctorum apostolorum Petri et
Pauli et nostra, tam ego quam totus conventus, confirmavimus...
4) [1151-1171] Noverint universi, quoniam Albertus, presbiter de Vitraio venit
in capitulum nostrum, et, presente Fulcherio abbate et omni conventu
nostro...
5) [1104] Guillelmus abbas humilisque fratrum conventus...
6) [1105 x 1114] Nota fuit omnibus dissensio Willelmi abbatis et totius
conventus et Fulconis subdecani...
that's it.
and, it looks to me like nos. 1) and 2) aren't relevant instances of the use
of the term.
presumably a search of the other monastic _fonds_ would yield similar results
--though it might well be that some houses, in some periods, might have
followed this "conventus" convention (as it were) more often than others.
(the charters from St. Peter's are the only ones i have at hand in an easily
searchable format.)
so, while referring to a collection of male religious as a "conventus"
certainly existed, it was not at all common (3 instances out of c. 200), but
rather an exception to the "normal" practice.
obviously, Christopher *saw* the examples of the usage, but failed to realize
what he was looking at.
which is not to say that the more common presence of the term in the charters
of the Western Fringe may not be due to the general Gender Confusion so
prevalent in that area.
there may well be another reason.
c
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