Hi all,
I am a little wide eyed at the moment that a short post could gather so many different responses. Honestly I am going through a very difficult time at the moment. But I will try my best to respond to each and everyone of you who have made the response.
Teena: maybe I have misread you. But it came from earlier posts in the past that I had that impression somehow. Maybe the jumping of threads gave that idea?
I am not undermining the difficulty of going through the PhD learning process itself. I had wanted to study before. What I really scorn are some couple of people whom I think do not deserve PhDs from the way they present themselves as being shallow minded apart from crap pieces of work that just churned out through twisting and turning of what others have already done. I won't go into depths of what I have gone through with these people but they do form a bad example of what fostering research communities are about.
I appreciate your perseverance in balancing work, family and studies together. It is not easy. It is also the same as with many other underprivileged people who are also struggling in their lives. It may not be PhDs but I have also come across people who are, I think, brilliant in how they sort their problems out. To me, they also opened my horizons. But I may not sound convincing because I do not have a postgraduate degree. Probably will never have from the circumstance I have been out in all the while.
Producing new knowledge requires one to break out from old moulds. From what I see, few great teachers will allow their students to be free on their own to think and create new forms and the funniest thing is, even at college or university, there is an uncanny net that stays on most students to follow certain cultures. I often wonder how that could foster genuinely new ideas and all. (?) I often think its just a continuation from what their masters have want them to do?
Cheers,
Karen Fu
On 2 Nov, 2012, at 14:34, teena clerke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
> Dear Karen,
>
> I cannot find anything to disagree with you about in your post, apart from my understanding of the term 'lurker' – Gunnar's post fits more with this understanding. I also do not recall ever responding to anything you may have posted, negatively or otherwise! Perhaps I am wrong?
>
> You may not realise that although I have just passed my PhD examination, this completes 10 years of study (while working casually and raising a young family) in the higher education domain after having entered the university for the first time at 45. I have subscribed to this list for 8 of these years and am not one to judge what anyone says on the basis of their having a PhD or not, as many on this list will have observed over these years.
>
> Although I too have been intimidated by others on this list, and in fact have been the receiver of some less than generous responses myself, I am bold, passionate and committed to constructive dialogue, from which mutual learning may arise, if not shared understanding. I subscribe to the idea of learning being that which occurs through the interaction between people, texts and objects in particular spaces, such as this list. And dialogue after all, involves more than one (or two) speaker(s) and listener(s), the outcome of which I believe is the sharing of (and hopefully, production of new) knowledge.
>
> regards,
> teena
>
>
>
> On 02/11/2012, at 11:50 AM, Karen wrote:
>
>> Dear Teena,
>>
>> Thanks for coming in straight on. I will be as blunt as before. Always been and probably wont improve that much, though I must honestly admit that recent events have made me far less amicable. Maybe I have changed or the environments around me have changed. My reply was directed to you. Actually I do not expect you to reply me, given that I have actually grown an impression that you have certain misconceptions about me from previous earlier posts. Perhaps I have misread you. Perhaps I don't. I came to read and feel that though you had encouraged Abhishek to contribute, I had read it to mean a negative hint to people who hibernated on the list. 'Lurkers' to me means people who sneak in 'knicked' off ideas off without contribution or in some ways fail to acknowledge contributors.
>>
>> Following the culture of most lists that would prefer a quoted definition from reference, I will just pick one off from Merriam Webster that a 'lurker' is someone who 'lie in wait in a place of concealment especially for an evil purpose. b : to move furtively or inconspicuously etc' I believe most references will give more insight into who is a lurker.
>>
>> Fostering research communities must include anyone who has a unique mind. It shouldn't be mutually exclusive to 'Phd' holders or 'PhD in process'. Honestly, I don't pay the same respect to anyone who has a doctorate degree. My experience with a good many aren't pleasant, often wondering how they get their terminal degrees. And for a good few, they actually try to stop others from learning and are afraid that their positions be threatened. Educated people must be gracious, honest and zealous, not jealous.
>>
>> PhD to me belongs to brilliant people who uphold unique mindsets of how things work and how to structure different thought processes which lead to new findings. It also means a fine special character which oozes rare charisma. You know when you see one. There are plenty of Doctorate graduates and college graduates, who merely follow procedures to get their degrees. Thats another story. To me, university means cultivating ones own thinking, not following, if everyone were to follow set routes, clearly there will be no new questions, hence no new findings. Research establishments, regardless academia or not, should be set free of cultures especially negative ones of any kind.
>>
>> We will never benefit in any environment where discrimination of any kind grows. There is no point pretending to be all that nice and pretty, when policies or endeavours are run on double standards too. Unfortunately this still happens. Unless we gather the finest minds with the grandest guts, nothing much new or good will prevail. These days, things do run into new forms of problems, not just female academics being undermined or so.
>>
>> Damn, the last line sounds awfully negative. Definitely not my style.
>> But in life, something will come out to balance it off.
>>
>>
>> Best,
>> Karen Fu
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 2 Nov, 2012, at 4:30, teena clerke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear Karen,
>>>
>>> I assume your comment is aimed at my post, although I am puzzled that you seem to have interpreted my invitation to Abhishek as 'sarcastic'. The term 'lurkers' is common parlance on this list, and is used, indeed, by lurkers themselves with no derogatory intention – I have used it to describe myself in the past.
>>>
>>> I asked Abhishek to contribute her story to the list, given her interest is in experiences and the past few posts have been descriptions of experience. You can see by the email she used from a previous post of mine, what you seem to be saying to me is clearly not what I am encouraging.
>>>
>>> Dialogue is enacted through productive, open and mindful exchanges, some of which are prompted by 'silly' questions.
>>>
>>> I hope you are able to contribute your own stories, as I often do, knowing that they will be read with respect.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>> teena
>>>
>>>
>>> On 02/11/2012, at 3:44 AM, Karen wrote:
>>>
>>>> So are sacarstic remarks part of the PhD conversation?
>>>> Guts, we must have.
>>>> Bold Passion to learn and undying perseverance to endure the toughest environment is another.
>>>> List lurkers may be silent. But that doesn't mean they don't think and not read.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Karen Fu
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 1 Nov, 2012, at 17:29, teena clerke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi Abhishek,
>>>>> perhaps you might like to share some of your experiences for the other list lurkers?
>>>>> teena
>>>>>
>>>>> On 01/11/2012, at 8:10 PM, Abhishek Shrivastava wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I am looking for more accounts of experiences. Please keep the thread going.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>> Abhishek
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 23 June 2012 03:01, teena clerke <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I almost forgot to mention that at an international level, this list in
>>>>>>> particular, and research conferences more broadly, have played a great part
>>>>>>> in fostering a research community through dialogue. So I encourage those
>>>>>>> new to the PhD to post the silly questions you dare not ask, challenge the
>>>>>>> comments you think suspect and air your thoughts as they progress – it is
>>>>>>> well worth it, as it helps you articulate what you are doing, and
>>>>>>> importantly, what you are NOT doing.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> happy phding,
>>>>>>> teena
>>>>>
>>>>>
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