medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
There are also, of course, medieval images of this practice. Most
famously, St Gregory the Great and his scribe: in the famous
10th-century Registrum Gregorii manuscript, the scribe is holding a wax
tablet and stylus. In the Scivias manuscript of Hildegard of Bingen,
however, it is she who has the wax tablet and stylus, presumably to jot
down details of her visions, while her scribe works in more permanent
parchment.
Cheers,
Jim
On 26/04/2012 3:13 PM, Rochelle Altman wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> No help to C., however, just a little point about writing from
> dictation (or from a public sermon/announcement/what have you)... It
> dates back to Sumer and Akkad -- at the very least. Definitely not an
> invention of the MA or Augustine or Plato or Hammurabi or Gudea, for
> that matter. It was SOP for more than four thousand years. That's what
> professional scribes did -- take words down from dictation. That's
> what professional stone scribes did: write the words down from
> dictation and then a stone carver carved it in stone for us to find a
> couple or four thousand years later.
>
> Was Bernie's sermon taken down? Quite possible. It should be mentioned
> that it was unlikely to have been one scribe, though. Scribes worked
> in teams of from two to six, depending upon what was being dictated.
> Court records apparently (at least in Egypt) were written down by
> individual scribes -- usually three -- and then compared to make sure
> that nothing was missed... a technique that has already been mentioned
> in this thread.
>
> Bob, there is, but not as much as one would think. For some reason,
> the concept that scribes only copied seems equally set in stone. Bede,
> for instance, had two scribes, the hands of both appear in the Moore
> Bede. He dictated it; that's the original. I had fun the last time I
> was at the Epigraphic Museum in Athens pointing out to two excited
> junior archaeologists where the stone scribes took turns It appears
> that on stone, at least on those enormous stelae, there was enough ink
> for the scribes to average out at 13 letters for each scribe's turn.
> (Those were large letters -- had to be for the text to be readable at
> 4 meters -- way up there.)
>
> Oh, well, back to my cyber cubby hole.
>
> Rochelle
>
>
> At 21:04 26/04/2012, you wrote:
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>>
>> On producing "publlshed" works from notes taken, recall Aristotle's
>> "Nichomacean [and other's] Ethics" for an early example of a
>> listener's notes becoming the text (whether Nicomachos was acting as
>> an official transcriber is another matter of which I know nothing).
>> And apparently Origen used (official?) recorders to produce some of
>> his works -- see the recent review of his Homilies on Genesis, for
>> example. There seems to have been a long tradition of this sort, not
>> to mention the practice of transcribing court proceedings as well.
>> Surely there must be a vast modern bibliography on these matters,
>> although that might not help CC in his quest(s).
>>
>> Bob Kraft, UPenn
>>
>> Christopher Crockett wrote:
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>>
>>> i "accidentally" came across a non-academic discussion of "Information
>>> Hoarders"
>>>
>>> http://www.salon.com/2012/04/25/information_hoarders_salpart/?source=newsletter
>>>
>>>
>>> which happened to contain this interesting Factoid:
>>>
>>> "Taking notes during sermons started in the Middle Ages. The work of
>>> a great
>>> sermonist like Bernard of Clairvaux survived because he would plant a
>>> secretary in the audience to take notes while he preached. Bernard
>>> would
>>> finalize his sermon based on these notes and release it for
>>> 'publication' by
>>> copying."
>>>
>>> does anyone know where i might find a serious discussion of Bernie's
>>> methods
>>> for putting together the final, "published" versions of his sermons?
>>>
>>> i suppose that the subject might be discussed somewhere in Jean
>>> Leclercq's
>>> "Recueil d’études sur Saint Bernard et ses ecrits" (Rome:
>>> Edizioni di
>>> Storia e letterature, 1962)?
>>>
>>> or not?
>>>
>>> or where?
>>>
>>> specifically, the historian of the 2nd Crusade, Odo of Deuil, says
>>> that Bernie
>>> preached a sermon on the third day of the great council which Louis VII
>>> assembled in February of 1147 at Etampes, at which Suger was
>>> designated to be
>>> Regent during the king's absence in the East. (Odo also tells us
>>> that the
>>> council began on "Circumdederunt Me Sunday.")
>>>
>>> i am trying --with no success, as yet-- to identify what the subject
>>> of that
>>> sermon might have been.
>>>
>>> i can't seem to find a pre-lent sermon which fits in with the Mare's
>>> Nest i am
>>> trying to construct, so i'm reluctantly coming around to the opinion
>>> that this
>>> particular sermon was never "published."
>>>
>>> being severely Sermoniacally Challenged, any thoughts on how i might
>>> go about
>>> solving this little Conundrum would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>> c
>>>
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