Dear Bruce et al.
I have watched the on-going discussion with interest and fully concur
with the need to protect our geological heritage for others to enjoy
and be educated by, not least because of my own long-standing
attachment to granulation seams and deformation bands.
My position is that Over Zealous sampling should be avoided and it is
incumbent upon us all to educate and inform the next generation to
avoid wanton destruction of key exposures and the like.
How best to do so?
Without become embroiled in legal issues and placing responsibility
solely upon parks agencies and the like (BSM etc.), I would suggest
that there is a role here for the geoscientific Associations and
Societies to which most of us belong, by their developing more
stringent code of conduct to which their members should sign up to
with membership and then adhere to.
Some already do so and have effective leaflets and publications
underlining the need to respect the landscape and natural environment
for others that follow to enjoy.
Without any prejudice to the specific sub-discipline mentioned
therein, the Geologists Association for instance have the following
code of conduct for rock coring:
http://www.geologistsassociation.org.uk/downloads/GARockCoringGuide.pdf
I was under the impression that many other societies already had codes
that covered such things. However, Where any need to develop codes
further, perhaps associations and societies like GSL, GSA, AAPG, EAGE,
SEG and SPE etc. etc. could take a lead and help further advance,
develop, publish and advertise similar things to cover general field
sampling and the expectations of all (samplers and those who have
follow up trips to the very same outcrops)?
Alternatively, this discussion forum membership could develop it's own
code and publicise it.
I hope this adds to the mix and I would welcome your thoughts.
--
Best Wishes
John
Professor John Underhill
============================================================================
President - European Association of Geoscientists & Engineers (EAGE)
http://www.eage.org/
============================================================================
Chair of Stratigraphy & Fellow of the Royal Society of Edinburgh (FRSE)
http://www.royalsoced.org.uk/
============================================================================
Work Address & Contact Details:
Grant Institute of Earth Science,
School of Geosciences,
The University of Edinburgh,
The King's Buildings,
West Mains Road,
Edinburgh,
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Scotland, U.K.
Telephone: 0131-650-8518 (direct line)
Telephone: 0131-650-1000 (switchboard)
Fax Number: 0131-668-3184
e-mail address: [log in to unmask]
Home page: http://www.geos.ed.ac.uk/contacts/homes/jru/
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Quoting Peter Eichhubl <[log in to unmask]> on Mon, 30 Apr
2012 08:39:29 -0500:
> Bruce: I concur with you that scenic and aesthetic considerations are
> important in selecting a sampling strategy. The sampling approach taken
> in Bartlett Wash was inconsiderate and unjustifiable-deformation bands
> can be sampled in this area in a less intrusive and conspicuous manner.
> I think most of us agree that statements of best sampling practices
> issued by the geological societies and taught in college and industry
> field courses would be a reasonable approach and a valuable outcome of
> this discussion.
>
> Where I don't agree is the call for more federal laws and regulations.
> The federal agencies have difficulties enforcing existing laws on the
> range. We have drug and gun laws in place, and yet our students get shot
> on public land by drug gangs. I have been the target of shooters in
> Corral Canyon just south of Bartlett Wash-luckily, the guy was a bad
> shot. What a protection law would do is limit our access but would do
> little in stopping those who simply don't care. The BLM office has
> enacted rules about off-road driving in the Moab-Green River area that
> don't seem to discourage recreational ATV drivers. They do limit our
> field access on existing roads.
>
> We should encourage the next generations of geologists to do field work
> in combination with quantitative lab analyses. Field observations, with
> note book and camera in hand, are an essential component but it can't
> stop there. Geologists should be encouraged to go back to the Moab
> fault. If you want full protection, cross the highway into Arches NP.
> The National Parks have the best resources to enforce such protection
> laws and, equally important, to issue permits. I'm glad to hear that
> some of the parks are now more accessible to scientific research.
>
> Regards,
>
> Peter
>
>
>
> Peter Eichhubl
>
> Research Scientist
>
> Bureau of Economic Geology
>
> The University of Texas at Austin
>
>
>
> From: Tectonics & structural geology discussion list
> [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Bruce Trudgill
> Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2012 8:56 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Geo-vandalism, Bartlett Wash, near Moab, SE Utah
>
>
>
> Mark,
>
> I'd like to take issue with a couple of the points that you make if I
> may.
>
> Yes, in the case of Bartlett Wash I am certainly "bemoaning the fact
> that beauty of the outcrop has been damaged". Bartlett Wash is a
> beautiful location in a spectacular region, and many people use the
> place recreationally, partly I'm sure for it's scenic appeal.
>
> Let me be clear. I am not "anti sampling", and have recently applied
> for, and received a sampling permit for Canyonlands National Park to
> collect hand samples from some key units around Upheaval Dome. This was
> not, I'm pleased to report particularly onerous, and the questions I had
> to deal with from the NPS were thoughtful and reasonable. I have no
> problem with sampling in appropriate locations with a clear scientific
> goal, but it behooves us as geologists to be cognisant of what others
> will think of our actions if we take no regard for the aesthetics of the
> areas in which we study.
>
> I couldn't agree more with Rob Butler's statement "Geoconservation is as
> important as bioconservation" and "breaking the rules and buggering up
> the aesthetic beauty of an outcrop for the sake of a paper just brings
> our game into disrepute".
>
> Your comment that the in the case of Bartlett Wash "there is still
> plenty of outcrop to study... " implies a worrying disregard for what
> many others outside of our field will think, if we don't take account of
> the aesthetics and yes, beauty of the outcrops that we work with, which
> many of us wish to protect for generations of geologists and
> non-geologists to enjoy as we have.
>
> Best wishes
>
> Bruce
>
> Dr Bruce Trudgill
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Geology and Geological Engineering
>
> Colorado School of Mines
>
> -----------
>
>
>
> From: Brandon, Mark <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Subject: Re: Geo-vandalism, Bartlett
> Wash, near Moab, SE Utah
>
> Date: April 29, 2012 6:38:53 PM MDT
>
> To: Tectonics & structural geology discussion
> list <[log in to unmask]>
>
> Reply-To: Tectonics & structural geology
> discussion list <[log in to unmask]>
>
>
>
>
>
> I am little worried that this geovandalism topic has gotten too pumped
> up. Some people are bemoaning the fact that beauty of the outcrop has
> been damaged. For me, I rather liked the fact that the KT boundaries in
> Italy and in New Zealand are peppered with pmag holes, They tell me tat
> people are actually making new observations and measurements. Do we
> really want to turn all of our discoveries into shrines. I would rather
> that the rocks were available for further sampling by others.
>
>
>
> Yes, we could appeal to the various government services or geological
> societies to impose rules about sampling, but when that happens, I think
> we find that it is nearly impossible to take any samples at all. A good
> example is the US National Park Service, which has traditionally been
> very hostile to any scientific sampling in US Parks (note this situation
> is improved over the years). The culture in the park service is that
> most rangers have bioscience backgrounds, so they have little
> understanding or appreciation of geologic studies. The common complaint
> is that erosion is bad, so sampling, like erosion, must be stopped. I
> agree however that there are unusual outcrops, like the famous Silurian
> fish bed in England, which at the time I saw it (1978) was sampled an
> arms length back into the outcrop. Alternatively, I look at the Barlett
> Wash photos and see a small area that has been cut up. My hunch is that
> the sampled materials have proven useful. Yes, it would be nice to know
> who did the sample and if the scar on the outcrop was truly worth it.
> But there is still plenty of outcrop to study....
>
>
>
> So, is the issue aesthetics or conservation? And do we really want to
> have laws and regulations imposed on our studies. All of this reminds of
> Brian Wernicke's NSF proposal many years back, where he argued, with
> help from the President at CalTech, that the regulations of the Park
> Service in Death Valley made no sense. At that time, the park service
> required that field studies be supported using pack animals, and that
> helicopters would not be allowed. When I found the same kind of
> thinking. In general, it had been concluded that all use of the area
> should revert back to practices used before European settlement. What
> seemed odd is that there was no appreciation of the fact that pack
> animals impose a much bigger cost on the landscape than helicopters. I
> was also left wonder why the park service was so willing to use
> helicopters to resupply backcountry ranger stations with tasty
> treats....
>
> Best,
>
> Mark Brandon
>
> Yale University
>
>
>
>
>
> Dr Bruce Trudgill
>
> Associate Professor
>
> Department of Geology and Geological Engineering
>
> Colorado School of Mines
>
> Golden, Colorado 80401-1887
>
> USA
>
>
>
> Telephone: (1) 303 273-3883
>
>
>
> FAX: (1) 303 273-3859
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Apr 29, 2012, at 6:38 PM, Brandon, Mark wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Mark Brandon
>
> Yale University
>
>
>
>
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