medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
From: John Briggs <[log in to unmask]>
> When does your year start? Are you talking about February 1146/7 or 1147/8?
good question(s).
definitely not the latter.
i've been working from secondary sources --or from modern editions of primary
sources-- so i have always assumed that we're talking about February of 1147,
in the French (not the Fringe) Royal Domain, where the year would have begun
on Pâques (and the year would have been corrected by the modern
author/editors to 1147, though pre-Easter charters would, themselves, be dated
"1146").
From: Karl Brunner <[log in to unmask]>
> Depending on Grotefend,Taschenbuch der Zeitrechnung available under
http://www.manuscripta-mediaevalia.de/gaeste/grotefend/grotefend.htm
1147 - in our sense, whenever you want (ore the writer of a diploma wants,
that depends) to begin it -
> March 2nd was Esto mihi
> March 5th was Ash Wednesday (caput jejunii)
> and
> April 20th was easter day.
yes, thanks Karl.
that's what i thought (from the site i found myself).
what i'm trying to do is to locate the temporal relationship between Easter of
1147 and the Great Council of the laymen and clergy of his realm which Louis
VII called to meet at Etampes (south of Paris, halfway down to Orleans) on the
eve of his departure for the 2nd Crusade.
(it was at this council that Abbot Suger was appointed to be Regent in the
King's absence, to be assisted by Raoul de Vermandois and Samson de Mauvoisin,
archbishop of Reims.)
i've got to review my sources, since i was never particularly interested in
this question at this level of detail before and had always been content to
think that my secondary sources were consistently converting the dates to "new
style."
i have a Hidden Agenda for wanting the council to have begun just before or
during the first week in Lent --but it looks like i'm going to be
disappointed.
a dangerous methodological practice when doing History, having a "Hidden
Agenda."
many thanks to you both.
c
> Am 02.01.2012 um 19:37 schrieb Christopher Crockett:
>
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
> >
> > i'm trying to determine the date of Ash Wednesday in 1147 (if there even
> > *were* an Ash Wednesday, en ces temps là) --or, at least, the date of
> > Quadragesima Sunday in that year.
> >
> > being thoroughly Cultishly Challenged, i turned to this site
> >
> > http://www.staff.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/easter/easter_text2a.htm
> >
> > entered "1147" in the appropriate box, only to discover that the Easter
date i
> > was content to arrive at ("30 March") was according to "Gregorian
reckoning"
> > --which i take to mean "New Style" and was, thus, not applicable.
> >
> > but the "Julian Reckoning" date of 20 April is too late for my purposes
(i
> > need for the first week of Lent in 1147 to fall sometime on or before 16
> > February).
> >
> > or, perhaps, my date of 16 February (which comes from a modern secondary
> > source) is, itself "Old Style"?
> >
> > is this true?
> >
> > not desiring to simply give up on the Quite Wonderful Mare's Nest which i
am
> > in process of constructing (out of sand on a beech at low tide), i'm
wondering
> > what it might take to get the date of Easter, 1147 changed so that it
suits my
> > needs.
> >
> > can Bennie16 do it on his own, or would he have to have the backing of an
> > Ecumenical Council?
> >
> > or is it like a Kennedy family divorce, and all i have to do is to drop a
> > substantial enough contribution into the collection plate?
> >
> > c
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