medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I don't have a specific example in mind, but this sort of alteration is
not uncommon in the exemplum literature. I'm sure you could find
examples where the order of a friar in a given exemplum varies with the
order of the compiler of the collection in which it's found. Perhaps the
scribe was adopting the ethic of the compiler of preaching aids, who was
free to shape his material to make his point or to suit his audience.
Peter
On 2011/06/08 9:33 AM, LAURIE POSTLEWATE wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Thanks to M-R members who have responded to my inquiry about the
> medieval use of the terms “Friars Minor” and “Friars Preachers”: I will
> give a bit more context for my question here.
>
>
>
> The English Franciscan Nicole Bozon (author of a collection of exempla
> and numerous verse pieces) composed a life of St. Elizabeth of Hungary.
> One episode, of which the source is almost certainly the /Legenda
> Aurea/, tells how Elizabeth scolded a pretentiously dressed squire. The
> young man subsequently converted and afterward Elizabeth urged him to
> “Go to the Friars Minor who are dear to me, and then join their order
> and amend your life.” This is in all likelihood what Bozon wrote, as it
> is what it is in the /LA /which he uses quite extensively in all of his
> eleven hagiographic poems. The copy of the poem that I am referring to
> here is in British Library Cottion Domitian A.XI.
>
>
>
> But there is another copy of the poem in BL Additional 70513 (also known
> as the Campsey manuscript.) There are very few differences in vocabulary
> or syntax between the two copies; one of the few differences is in this
> episode, which is identical to the first manuscript, except that “freres
> menours” has been replaced by “freres prechours.” (Both of these two
> manuscripts are ca. 1300-1350, with Add. 70513 possibly slightly earlier
> than Cotton Domitian A.XI.)
>
>
>
> Given that I am reasonably certain that Bozon followed his source and
> wrote “freres menours”, it leads me to assume that this is a scribal
> matter. I am pondering what--if anything--to conclude from this, and it
> has given me to wonder the following:
>
>
>
> a. If this is a scribal error, do we conclude that the two terms
> were somehow interchangeable in the minds of scribes and perhaps also of
> the general lay public? Is this just like saying “the mendicants” and
> the two terms are interchangeable—for the larger public. (“Menours” does
> in fact sound reasonably close to “prechours”!) I always had the
> impression that the terms signified one group or the other in a more
> specific and limited way, both for the brothers themselves, but also for
> the lay public. It seems like a small detail, however I think it has
> interesting implications for how we understand the perception of the two
> orders by the larger public at the time.
>
> b. If this is a scribal emendation, that also is interesting!
>
>
>
> I don’t want to read too much into this, but it certainly did catch my
> eye. And I was wondering if others had run across instances of either
> this particular “error” or “emendation” to the terms.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for your feedback
>
>
>
> Laurie Postlewate
>
> Barnard College
>
>
> On Wed, Jun 8, 2011 at 7:02 AM, Paul Chandler
> <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
> In the early days of the mendicant movement there were disputes over
> alms and even candidates resulting from confusion between orders
> with similar habits, for example between the Franciscans and various
> Italian hermit groups which ended up in the Augustinian Union. (Some
> of these cases are documented in Roth's series of articles "Cardinal
> Richard Annibaldi..." in /Augustiniana /1952-54.) However, it seems
> very unlikely that Dominicans and Franciscans would be confused,
> especially in the 14th century, when they both had well-established
> and distinctive profiles.
>
> Rather than a confusion of orders, I wonder if this may be merely a
> lapse of concentration by your scribe (a "senior moment"?), or
> possibly a deliberate emendation to introduce into the narrative the
> order which he preferred for some reason. -- Paul
>
>
>
> On 8 June 2011 12:10, Cusato, Michael <[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and culture
>
> At first blush, as you have presented it, this looks like a
> simple scribal error. Can you give a fuller excerpt of the text
> in question, even comparatively, with the other version? That
> would help. Of course, the Friars Minor also preached; but one
> would never refer to the Minors as the Preachers, as they were
> well known to have distinct titles (fratres minores; fratres
> predicatores; or, alternately, ordo fratrum minorum; ordo
> fratrum praedicatorum).
>
>
>
> Michael Cusato
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:*medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religious culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] *On Behalf Of *LAURIE
> POSTLEWATE
> *Sent:* Tuesday, June 07, 2011 9:15 PM
>
>
> *To:* [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> *Subject:* Re: [M-R] Friars "minor" and "preachers" confused?
>
>
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and culture Sorry, I should have been clearer. It is, of course,
> well known that Elizabeth of Hungary was associated with the
> Friars Minor, the Franciscans. Among the vernacular poets who
> composed versions of her life was one Nicole Bozon, an English
> Franciscan writing in French (Anglo-Norman) in the early
> fourteenth century. There are two extant copies of this life. In
> one of the copies, Elizabeth refers to the "freres menours" in
> one episode, as one would expect. But in the other copy of the
> poem, "freres menours" is replaced by "freres prechours" in that
> very spot in the poem.
>
>
>
> So my question is this: is this a honest "mistake" that the
> scribe made (in writing "freres prechours" instead of "freres
> menours")? Was there in the late thirteenth and early fourteenth
> century any confusion as to which name referred to which order,
> or is it possible that a scribe would conflate the two together
> is his mind? ?Are there other examples of the two names being
> switched? Or (even more interesting) is this scribe trying to
> associate Elizabeth of Hungary with the Dominicans, instead of
> associating her with the Franciscans which is where we normally
> find her?
>
>
>
> On Tue, Jun 7, 2011 at 8:28 PM, McMichael, Steven J.
> <[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>> wrote:
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and culture
>
> Usually the friars minor are the Franciscans and the friar
> preachers are the Dominicans. In the poem is he speaking about
> the friars (Franciscans) who are engaged in the preaching
> apostolate? Just a thought ..
>
> Steve
> ________________________________________
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
> religious culture [[log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>] On Behalf Of LAURIE
> POSTLEWATE [[log in to unmask] <mailto:[log in to unmask]>]
> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:39 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> <mailto:[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: [M-R] Friars "minor" and "preachers" confused?
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion
> and culture Can anyone provide me with a medieval example where
> the terms freres prechours (friars preachers) and freres menours
> (friars minor) were interchanged or confused?
>
>
> (I am examining two versions of the life of St. Elizabeth of
> Hungary by Nicole Bozon (himself a Franciscan): one version
> refers to freres prechours, and the other to freres
> menours--i....and I am trying to figure out what the difference
> in these two copies of the poem might mean!)
>
> Many thanks in advance
> Laurie Postlewate
> Barnard College
>
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> --
> Paul Chandler, O.Carm.
> Holy Spirit Seminary | PO Box 18 (487 Earnshaw Road) | Banyo Qld
> 4014 | Australia
> office: (07) 3246 9888 | home: (07) 3246 9894
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