JiscMail Logo
Email discussion lists for the UK Education and Research communities

Help for FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives


FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Archives


FILM-PHILOSOPHY@JISCMAIL.AC.UK


View:

Message:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Topic:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

By Author:

[

First

|

Previous

|

Next

|

Last

]

Font:

Proportional Font

LISTSERV Archives

LISTSERV Archives

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Home

FILM-PHILOSOPHY Home

FILM-PHILOSOPHY  December 2010

FILM-PHILOSOPHY December 2010

Options

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Subscribe or Unsubscribe

Log In

Log In

Get Password

Get Password

Subject:

Re: FILM-PHILOSOPHY Digest - 24 Dec 2010 - Special issue (#2010-339)

From:

Don Handelman <[log in to unmask]>

Reply-To:

Film-Philosophy <[log in to unmask]>

Date:

Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:49:50 +0200

Content-Type:

text/plain

Parts/Attachments:

Parts/Attachments

text/plain (328 lines)

Get off the kosher, Bill, otherwise we're back into your nastiness of  
a couple of years back. (and your non-existent anthropology).

DH

On Dec 24, 2010, at 5:38 PM, FILM-PHILOSOPHY automatic digest system  
wrote:

> There are 2 messages totaling 760 lines in this issue.
>
> Topics in this special issue:
>
>  1. Showgirls/catfish
>  2. Bill Harris's slander (re SHOWGIRLS)
>
> --
> Film-Philosophy
> After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message  
> you are replying to
> To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask]
> Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html
> For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list
> --
> Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/
> Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/
> Contact: [log in to unmask]
> --
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:31:58 -0500
> From:    bill harris <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Showgirls/catfish
>
>
>
> Bad metaphors make for poor judgment.
>
> My work at Vincennes, under Deleuze, was on Kant's Third Critique.  
> Yet perhaps that's too muddy for you, as well.
>
> OTH, Deleuze's concept of the Body without Organs appears in Anti- 
> Oedipus. This was not discussed in class because Deleuze--rare among  
> academics--categorically refusd to discuss his own work therein.
>
> Verhoven--unlike, say, Kieslowski-- was famous for employing camp to  
> illustrate larger points of meaning. This is more or less consistent  
> with Spinozan univocity, which itself extends back into The  
> Scholastic Era...and forward to W's Tractatus.
>
> In this perspective, depth and elevation totally miss the point:  
> it's all on the surface which, in Showgirls, is made as glossy as  
> possible. All we can do is make a case with facts within a given  
> frame of reference.
>
> Calling others 'catfish', then, reeks of the idiocy of an over- 
> Platonized Christianity. It's also bad Biology, derived from the  
> Kosher obsession with 'clean' and 'dirty' fish.
>
> BH
>
>
>
> Date: Sat, 25 Dec 2010 00:56:11 +1100
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Showgirls
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
> On 25 December 2010 00:23, William Brown <[log in to unmask]>  
> wrote:
>
> At the risk of sounding a bit like Ralph Wiggum from Der Simpsons, I
> quite like Showgirls.
>
>
> Haiku for bh
>
> Bodies sans organs
> Amerika c'est kaka
> Play Showgirls, Nome!
>
> R
> -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the  
> text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message:  
> leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html 
>  For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list --  
> Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film- 
> Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ 
>  Contact: [log in to unmask] -- 		 	   		  
> --
> Film-Philosophy
> After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message  
> you are replying to
> To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask]
> Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html
> For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list
> --
> Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/
> Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/
> Contact: [log in to unmask]
> --
>
> ------------------------------
>
> Date:    Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:38:51 -0500
> From:    bill harris <[log in to unmask]>
> Subject: Re: Bill Harris's slander (re SHOWGIRLS)
>
>
> Even in the Homeric Era it was written, 'To Pathe methos echein'.
>
> So if the violation/cruelty theory no longer holds, perhaps it's  
> just a matter of will versus the financial rewards of conformity.
>
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 10:14:51 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Bill Harris's slander (re SHOWGIRLS)
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> “My point is that all art is about the violation of the implicit  
> terms that exist between creator and  viewer/reader/listener.. “
>
>            well . . . so much for homer . . . tant pis . . . it was  
> nice while it lasted [three thousand years]
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> From: Film-Philosophy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On  
> Behalf Of bill harris
> Sent: Friday, December 24, 2010 10:07 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Bill Harris's slander (re SHOWGIRLS)
>
> My point is that all art is about the violation of the implicit  
> terms that exist between creator and
> viewer/reader/listener. For example, Oates said as much about the  
> novel, and, of course we have Artaud's 'cruelty' that states more or  
> less the same thing regarding theatre.
>
> Cinematic terms ostensibly involve viewer expectations that will  
> make him/her happy, and were intentionally violated by Verhoven,  
> Esterhaz, and Berkley. That this caused an uproar from the real  
> cinematic bottom-feeders (those whose sexual expectations were not  
> met) was to be expected.
>
> What, however, did amaze me was the failure of 'the critics' to  
> speak up. Would this not ostensibly include those in academia?  
> Showgirls, then, is fussy to the extent that it demonstrated a total  
> lack of a critical cinematic faculty from those charged with having  
> one.
>
> This is not to say that those who disliked the film are wrong;  
> rather, only that their lockstep
> behavior with those who they should be informing indicates a sociial  
> pathology..an intellectual failure of leadership, as it were.
>
> BH
>
>
>
>
> Date: Fri, 24 Dec 2010 09:42:20 -0500
> From: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Bill Harris's slander (re SHOWGIRLS)
> To: [log in to unmask]
>
> it’s christmas eve, and maybe that means that only those of us for  
> whom this is no big deal will be interested in pursuing this issue  
> thoughtfully  – if so, so be it
>
> but i wanted to raise – without polemic or “poetry” – a  
> question about the “showgirls” conversation:  the most recent  
> posts seem to suggest that the attention paid to this film by an  
> “impressive list of film academics” is itself in some  
> [mysterious?] way a vindication of the quality of the film . . .
>
> sorry, but i just don’t get this . . . from the POV of academic/ 
> theoretical inquiry disasters may well be more interesting than  
> successes  [“Successful films are all alike; every unsuccessful  
> film is unsuccessful in its own way”???] . . . so i’m not sure  
> why the attention of burch, williams usw. tells us anything about  
> the value of the film as anything but an object of academic  
> scrutiny . . . remember that williams has for years now been doing a  
> great deal of impressive work on porn, and i suspect that very few  
> among us want to defend the aesthetic or intellectual [as opposed to  
> cultural/sociological] interest of the texts she works on
>
> in any case, it seems to me an inescapable [and, to me, lamentable]  
> fact of most contemporary academic criticism that the inherent  
> quality/value of a film [or book, or building, usw.] is of little  
> significance [even if it’s allowed that the concept of inherent  
> value has an meaning at all . . .
>
> what’s all the fuss about??
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
> From: Film-Philosophy [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On  
> Behalf Of Chuck Kleinhans
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Abstract
>
> Film Quarterly
>
> Spring 2003, Vol. 56, No. 3, Pages 32–46
>
> Posted online on December 2, 2003.
>
> (doi:10.1525/fq.2003.56.3.32)
>
>
>
>
>
> Round Table: Showgirls
>
>
>
> Akira Mizuta Lippit, Noël Burch, Chon Noriega, Ara Osterweil, Linda  
> Williams,Eric Shaefer, Jeffrey Sconce‌
>
>
>
> As recently as December, 2002, the New York Times' Elvis Mitchell  
> referred to the "wreckage" ofShowgirls (1995). Yet the Film  
> Quarterly editorial board had just been galvanized by a discussion  
> of the same film. Apparently there exists a number of secret and not- 
> so-secret devotees of the film.Showgirls has, perhaps unexpectedly,  
> served to stimulate scholarly thought around issues of camp, satire,  
> class, gender, the fallen woman, showgirl musicals, trash cinema,  
> sexploitation films, hedonistic criticism, and reading and teaching  
> the film. Noël Burch, Akira Mizuta Lippit, Chon Noriega, Ara  
> Osterweil, Eric Schaefer, Jeffrey Sconce, and Linda Williams have  
> contributed to this discussion of the film. Perhaps Showgirls can  
> still be rescued from the wreckage?
>
>
>
>
>
> That's a pretty impressive list of film academics, by anyone's  
> standard
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the  
> text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message:  
> leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html 
>  For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list --  
> Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film- 
> Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ 
>  Contact: [log in to unmask] -- 
> -- Film-Philosophy After hitting 'reply' please always delete the  
> text of the message you are replying to To leave, send the message:  
> leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html 
>  For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list --  
> Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film- 
> Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/ 
>  Contact: [log in to unmask] ---- Film-Philosophy After  
> hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are  
> replying to To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask] 
>  Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html For  
> technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list -- Film- 
> Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/ Film-Philosophy  
> Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/ 
> conference/ Contact: [log in to unmask] -- 		 	   		  
>
> --
> Film-Philosophy
> After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message  
> you are replying to
> To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask]
> Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html
> For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list
> --
> Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/
> Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/
> Contact: [log in to unmask]
>
> ------------------------------
>
> End of FILM-PHILOSOPHY Digest - 24 Dec 2010 - Special issue  
> (#2010-339)
> ***********************************************************************

--
Film-Philosophy
After hitting 'reply' please always delete the text of the message you are replying to
To leave, send the message: leave film-philosophy to: [log in to unmask]
Or visit: http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/film-philosophy.html
For technical help email: [log in to unmask], not the list
--
Film-Philosophy journal: http://www.film-philosophy.com/
Film-Philosophy Conference (6-8 July 2011): http://www.film-philosophy.com/conference/
Contact: [log in to unmask]
--

Top of Message | Previous Page | Permalink

JiscMail Tools


RSS Feeds and Sharing


Advanced Options


Archives

August 2019
July 2019
June 2019
May 2019
April 2019
March 2019
February 2019
January 2019
December 2018
November 2018
October 2018
September 2018
August 2018
July 2018
June 2018
May 2018
April 2018
March 2018
February 2018
January 2018
December 2017
November 2017
October 2017
September 2017
August 2017
July 2017
June 2017
May 2017
April 2017
March 2017
February 2017
January 2017
December 2016
November 2016
October 2016
September 2016
August 2016
July 2016
June 2016
May 2016
April 2016
March 2016
February 2016
January 2016
December 2015
November 2015
October 2015
September 2015
August 2015
July 2015
June 2015
May 2015
April 2015
March 2015
February 2015
January 2015
December 2014
November 2014
October 2014
September 2014
August 2014
July 2014
June 2014
May 2014
April 2014
March 2014
February 2014
January 2014
December 2013
November 2013
October 2013
September 2013
August 2013
July 2013
June 2013
May 2013
April 2013
March 2013
February 2013
January 2013
December 2012
November 2012
October 2012
September 2012
August 2012
July 2012
June 2012
May 2012
April 2012
March 2012
February 2012
January 2012
December 2011
November 2011
October 2011
September 2011
August 2011
July 2011
June 2011
May 2011
April 2011
March 2011
February 2011
January 2011
December 2010
November 2010
October 2010
September 2010
August 2010
July 2010
June 2010
May 2010
April 2010
March 2010
February 2010
January 2010
December 2009
November 2009
October 2009
September 2009
August 2009
July 2009
June 2009
May 2009
April 2009
March 2009
February 2009
January 2009
December 2008
November 2008
October 2008
September 2008
August 2008
July 2008
June 2008
May 2008
April 2008
March 2008
February 2008
January 2008
December 2007
November 2007
October 2007
September 2007
August 2007
July 2007
June 2007
May 2007
April 2007
March 2007
February 2007
January 2007
2006
2005
2004
2003
2002
2001
2000
1999
1998


JiscMail is a Jisc service.

View our service policies at https://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/policyandsecurity/ and Jisc's privacy policy at https://www.jisc.ac.uk/website/privacy-notice

Secured by F-Secure Anti-Virus CataList Email List Search Powered by the LISTSERV Email List Manager