Same here!
===============================================
Dr Vassilis Monastiriotis
Hellenic Observatory, European Institute, LSE
email: [log in to unmask]
===============================================
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of [log in to unmask]
Sent: 02 September 2010 16:23
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
I was going to say the same. Now I have
Jonathan Rosenhead
London School of Economics
-----Original Message-----
From: email list for Radical Statistics [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
On Behalf Of Nick Clark
Sent: 02 September 2010 16:15
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
I agree with David - and would have said the same earlier if I had
received the original e-mail. This seems to me to be a particularly bad
time to be retreating into blandness.
Nick Clark
Senior Research Fellow
Working Lives Research Institute
London Metropolitan University
31 Jewry Street
London
EC3N 2EY
+44 (0)207 320 3019
www.workinglives.org
Professor David Gordon wrote, On 02/09/2010 15:10:
> Dear David
>
> Thank you for the clarification.
>
> If the new wording is adopted then I presume that Radstats will no
> longer aim to use of statistics 'as part of campaigns for progressive
> social change' or in 'helping build a more free, democratic and
> egalitarian society' or continue to be interested in 'The power
> structures within which statistical and research workers are employed
> and which control the work and how it is used', etc.
>
> What then is the point of Radsats? and how would it differ in any
> substantial way from the Royal Statistical Society? If Radical
> Statistics is no longer 'radical' why should it not just wind itself
> up and merge with some professional and/or academic organisation?
>
> What part of the proposed text does the Troika believe to be
> 'radical'? I am unclear why the Troika seems to be proposing to remove
> most of what is 'radical' from the aims of 'Radical Statistics'? Why
> is a new 'mission statement' needed?
>
> I would personally prefer to keep the old text rather than replace it
> with the new proposal.
>
> Regards
>
> David Gordon
>
>
> --On 02 September 2010 14:49 +0100 David Manley
> <[log in to unmask]> wrote:
>
>> Dear David,
>>
>> At present, the Troika have not got plans to change the second
>> statement,
>> just the first. I will include your response in the discussions that
the
>> Troika have once all the responses have been collated!
>>
>> Best wishes
>>
>> David.
>>
>> ___________________________________________________
>>
>> Dr. David Manley
>> Centre for Housing Research
>> School of Geography and Geosciences
>> University of St Andrews
>>
>> Irvine Building, North Street, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9AL
>> Tel: ++44(0)1334 462383, Fax: ++44(0)1334463949, Email:
>> [log in to unmask]
>>
>> Links: ESRC Seminar Series: www.neighbourhoodeffects.org
>> School of Geography and Geosciences: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg
>> Centre for Housing Research: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/chr
>>
>>
>>
>> The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland : No
>> SC013532
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Professor David Gordon [mailto:[log in to unmask]]
>> Sent: 02 September 2010 14:48
>> To: David Manley
>> Cc: [log in to unmask]
>> Subject: Re: New Radstats wording
>>
>> Dear David
>>
>> Just to clarify, are the Troike proposing to delete the current 'What
is
>> Radical Statistics' statement (<http://www.radstats.org.uk/about.htm>
>> and
>> also below) and replace it with the new text in your e-mail (below)?
>>
>> The proposed text is fairly unobjectionable but it is not very
>> 'Radical', I would think that the Royal Statistical Society or even
the
>> Statistics Commission could also have the new text as their 'mission
>> statement'!
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> David Gordon
>>
>> 'The Radical Statistics Group, usually abbreviated to Radstats, was
>> formed in 1975 as part of the radical science movement associated
with
>> the establishment of the British Society for Social Responsibility
in
>> Science (BSSRS).
>>
>> The researchers and statisticians who started Radstats shared a
common
>> concern about the political implications of their work and an
awareness
>> of the actual and potential misuse of statistics. Sadly, neither the
>> BSSRS nor other organizations affiliated to the BSSRS, survived the
18
>> years of Conservative rule from 1979 to 1997.
>>
>> RadStats is now independent of any other organisation. Members are
>> 'radical' in being committed to helping build a more free, democratic
>> and
>> egalitarian society. Members of Radstats are concerned at the extent
to
>> which official statistics reflect governmental rather than social
>> purposes. Our particular concerns are:
>>
>> * The mystifying use of technical language to disguise social
>> problems as technical ones
>> * The lack of control by the community over the aims of
statistical
>> investigations, the way these are conducted and the use of the
>> information produced
>> * The power structures within which statistical and research
workers
>> are employed and which control the work and how it is used
>> * The fragmentation of social problems into specialist fields,
>> obscuring connectedness
>>
>> Radstats members believe that statistics can be used as part of
>> campaigns
>> for progressive social change - just as they were used to support
>> measures that led to improvements in public health in the 19th
>> century.'
>>
>>
>> The Home page of the website also has the following statement
>>
>> 'We believe that statistics can be used to support radical campaigns
for
>> progressive social change. Statistics should inform, not drive
policies.
>> Social problems should not be disguised by technical language.'
>>
>> Is the Troika proposing to also replace this with the new text?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --On 01 September 2010 10:35 +0100 David Manley
<[log in to unmask]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Dear Radstat Members,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Those of you who were at the Annual Conference in February will
>>> remember
>>> that a proposal was put forward to change the wording of the
Radstats
>>> 'mission'. At the conference we were unable to agree on a new vision
>>> and the Troika (Along with a few others) were tasked with coming up
>>> with
>>> something suitable. After quite a bit of deliberation a we have
devised
>>> the following:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Radstats seeks to:
>>> * Expose the assumptions which underpin decisions about the
>>> collection, analysis and interpretation of statistics.
>>> * Ensure these assumptions are clearly and publicly documented in
>>> non-technical language and the statistics themselves should be
publicly
>>> available.
>>> * Promote the documentation of the ways in which statistics are
used
>>> to justify policy decisions and monitor policy implementation
>>> * Encourage the acceptance that the wide range of users of
statistics
>>> should have an influence on what is collected and how.
>>> * Enable statisticians and other data analysts to publish their
>>> analyses independently of employers and funders, irrespective of
>>> whether
>>> they work in government or other public sector organisations, or in
the
>>> academic, commercial or voluntary sector.
>>>
>>> If you agree that the new version is suitable then you need not do
>>> anything. If, however, you are not happy with the new wording, then
>>> please let the Troika know, and proposal an alternative. We would
>>> like to
>>> move foward with this quite quickly so please respond (if necessary)
by
>>> 15th September.
>>>
>>> Best wishes
>>>
>>> David
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___________________________________________________
>>>
>>> Dr. David Manley
>>>
>>> Centre for Housing Research
>>> School of Geography and Geosciences
>>> University of St Andrews
>>>
>>> Irvine Building, North Street, St Andrews, Fife, KY16 9AL
>>> Tel: ++44(0)1334 462383, Fax: ++44(0)1334463949, Email:
>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>
>>> Links: ESRC Seminar Series: www.neighbourhoodeffects.org
>>> School of Geography and Geosciences: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/gg
>>> Centre for Housing Research: www.st-andrews.ac.uk/chr
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The University of St Andrews is a charity registered in Scotland :
No
>>> SC013532
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ----------------------
>> Dave Gordon
>> Townsend Centre for International Poverty Research
>> University of Bristol
>> 8 Priory Road
>> Bristol BS8 1TZ, UK
>>
>> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
>> Tel: +44-(0)117-954 6761
>> Fax: +44-(0)117-954 6756
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----------------------
> Dave Gordon
> Townsend Centre for International Poverty Research
> University of Bristol
> 8 Priory Road
> Bristol BS8 1TZ, UK
>
> E-Mail: [log in to unmask]
> Tel: +44-(0)117-954 6761
> Fax: +44-(0)117-954 6756
>
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