medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Forgive me, but I am so tired of hearing what has been written. There is no
doubt that this is very significant. But what was not written is also
significant. And I suspect, though this is clearly not my field, that there
must be remnants if what women thought. I do not believe that the Christ had
just a male perspective; indeed all his works show the opposite. So the dear
Lord had no conception of differentiation between the sexes, so far and I
can see from the gospels
NO CONCEPTION OF DIFFERENTion BETWEEN THE SEXES, SOP FAR4 AS I CAN SEE FROM
THE Gospel's,
So
Dr Margaret RLL Kelly
Phone : 61-2-98507060
Fax : 61-2-98507686
You may access my papers on the Social Science Research Network (SSRN) at:
http://ssrn.com/author=853002
-----Original Message-----
From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Dr Jim
Bugslag
Sent: Tuesday, 12 January 2010 10:58 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: [M-R] Resurrection Bodies/Cross
medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
Tom,
There are, I believe, 3rd-century terracotta lamps featuring the Good
Shepherd, etc. To answer Bob's earlier question on Clement of
Alexandria (apologies for making him a bishop!) and his advice on signet
rings for Christians, my source has only an unexplained contraction,
which I'm sure many list members will understand: Clement, Paed., 3.11.
Also referenced is L. Eizenhofer, "Die Sigelbildvorschlage des Clemens
von Alexandrien," Jahrbuch fur Antike und Christentum, 3 (1960), 51-69.
The passage translates as: "Now our seals ought to be a dove, a fish, a
ship running before the breeze, a musical lyre, or a ship's anchor."
There is much else on such imagery in Robin Margaret Jensen,
Understanding Early Christian Art (London, 2000).
Cheers,
Jim
Tom Izbicki wrote:
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> A lot of clay lamps survive from antiquity. Has anyone run into
> examples with evidently Christian symbols?
> Tom Izbicki
>
> Robert Kraft wrote:
>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>> culture
>>
>> A rather complex question that might need more focus. Without doing
>> any specific "homework" on it, the following topics occur to me:
>> Early Christian use of the IXQUS (fish, ichthus) symbol for
>> identification;
>> Early Christian use of the sign of the cross ("seal"), probably on
>> the forehead;
>> Written amulets, perhaps following on Jewish use of phylacteries or
>> tefillin;
>> Gems and the like (incidentally, I'd be pleased to know where Clement
>> -- not to my knowledge "bishop" of Alexandria -- mentioned such things);
>> Graffiti and wall images of crosses and other characteristic items;
>> Independent portable items such as icons, pendants, etc.
>>
>> I'm sure that many (but not all) of these are attested by the 3nd
>> century, and a few even earlier. Whether the burial of "sacred"
>> books with a deceased person also counts (e.g. "Gospel of Judas,"
>> "Gospel of Peter" -- and many others) is discussable. Some byzantine
>> coins from the 10th century onward (perhaps earlier) also bore images
>> of Jesus. And isn't the "Veronica" shroud-type image mentioned
>> already in the 4th century? Plenty to keep one busy here!
>>
>> Bob Kraft, UPenn
>>
>> Dr Jim Bugslag wrote:
>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>> culture
>>>
>>> Meg,
>>> Although I have no historical data to base this on, my feeling is
>>> that they did indeed. It's more a question of human nature,
>>> really. Why give up something that works for something else, if you
>>> don't see any fundamental problem with using both? This is the sort
>>> of question that, I'm sure, maddened theologians, and reassured the
>>> masses of Christians through most of the "middle ages".
>>> Cheers,
>>> Jim
>>>
>>> Cormack, Margaret Jean wrote:
>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>> culture
>>>>
>>>> Your rephrasing is much better! Though it brings up another
>>>> question, namely whether early Christians who used crosses as
>>>> amulets also had other kinds of amulets. . . Meg
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>>
>>>> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval
>>>> religious culture on behalf of Dr Jim Bugslag
>>>> Sent: Sun 10.1.2010 20:57
>>>> To: [log in to unmask]
>>>> Subject: Re: [M-R] Resurrection Bodies/Cross
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>> culture
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that this question should be rephrased: do we know when
>>>> Christians began to assimilate the practice of using amulets? In the
>>>> late 2nd century, Clement, the Bishop of Alexandria, recommends
>>>> devices
>>>> that Christians should carve on their rings, including doves, ships
>>>> and
>>>> anchors - that's pretty amuletic. Crosses scratched in cemeteries
>>>> also
>>>> begin to appear in the 2nd century, I believe. On a later phase of
>>>> this
>>>> usage, see Henry Maguire, The Icons of their Bodies: Saints and their
>>>> Images in Byzantium (1996).
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Jim
>>>>
>>>> Marjorie Greene wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
>>>>> culture
>>>>> "Do we know when amulets (crosses or otherwise) are first used?"
>>>>>
>>>>> An interesting question and one I cannot answer. It would be
>>>>> interesting to find the earliest example of a cleric wearing a
>>>>> pectoral cross. I suspect, but have no evidence, that they started
>>>>> the
>>>>> practice, which then trickled down to the laity.
>>>>> I hope you get an authoritative response.
>>>>> MG
>>>>>
>>>>> Marjorie Greene
>>>>> http://medrelart.shutterfly.com/
>>>>>
>>>>> --- On *Mon, 1/11/10, Cormack, Margaret Jean
>>>>> /<[log in to unmask]>/* wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>
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