How about cloth?

Bob Miller

Julian Vincent wrote:
> You could say that paper is hierarchical in that the hierarchy of the 
> material from which you make it (wood) is not entirely destroyed.  
> This leads to confusion, since paper-makers talk about fibres which we 
> call cells.  The nanofibres in the cell wall can be seen by 
> papermakers when they beat the furnish and get fringes of cellulose 
> nanofibres sticking out and interacting with nanofibres from other 
> cells.  So paper is hierarchical, but as far as man is concerned it's 
> by default!  Some papers are made from nanofibres direct and they are 
> very stiff.  Bacterial cellulose has been used to make the loudspeaker 
> cones of ear-pieces (though I expect technology has moved on since then).
>
> Julian
>
> On 19 Mar 2009, at 15:40, a.g.atkins wrote:
>
>> How small are the smallest fibres in paper? Aren't they greater than 
>> the smallest microstructural features?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 19 2009, Olga Bogatyreva wrote:
>>
>>> No. Paper is the result of total destruction of the initial timber  
>>> hierarchical organisation and also withdrawal of lignin, resins, 
>>> etc.  and then making the new material from that what is left 
>>> without  special strucutre and hierarchy.
>>>
>>> Nikolay
>>>
>>> Quoting "a.g.atkins" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>
>>>> Paper, too, as well as rope?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 18 2009, Julian Vincent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree entirely about taking biologicl concepts and putting 
>>>>> them   into an engineering context.  A fair amount of the 
>>>>> advantage is   lost.  One answer is to take a cue from biology at 
>>>>> a deeper level.    You don't  need to get organisms to make things 
>>>>> for you, but   perhaps use the idea of assembling components 
>>>>> rather than   synthesising them.  At present  rope is one of the 
>>>>> few materials we   have which is assembled  hierarchically.  This 
>>>>> embodies quite a  few  attributes of biological  systems.  There 
>>>>> are as many levels  of  hierarchy in a single hair as in an 
>>>>> aircraft sitting on the  tarmac  in an airport.  There are other  
>>>>> advantages in assembly  such as  control of fracture behaviour. 
>>>>> Have a  look at Vincent,  J.F.V.,  Biomimetic materials. Journal 
>>>>> of Materials  Research,  2008. 23: p.  3140-3147 for a more 
>>>>> complete exposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julian
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>> MA, PhD, DSc, FRES, MIMMM, CEng, FIMechE
>>>>> Laburnum Cottage
>>>>> 48 Frome Road
>>>>> Odd Down
>>>>> BATH
>>>>> BA2  2QB
>>>>> tel: 01225 835076
>>>>> Mob: 07941 933 901
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Mar 2009, at 22:13, Samuel Bautista Lazo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the design for sustainable products I was wondering why most 
>>>>>> of    the Biomimetic efforts are aimed at mimicking nature to 
>>>>>> improve   the  functionality of products but at the end the 
>>>>>> improved   products are  still made out of synthetic materials 
>>>>>> (the geko   tape, or the Spedo  fastskin swimming suit, lotusan 
>>>>>> paint)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the challenges for using biological processes and    
>>>>>> metabolisms to sustainabilly produce the materials we need to   
>>>>>> obtain  the functionality for everyday products?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using those materials can we design biological manufacturing    
>>>>>> proceses to make the products we need for a sustainable future?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we can may be that would reduce the burden on the 
>>>>>> environment   and  the consumption of non renewable resources or 
>>>>>> even more may   be that  could contribute to restorative 
>>>>>> production/consumption   systems.
>>>>>>
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>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Manfred Drack 
>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my PhD thesis I came to the conclusion that energy 
>>>>>> efficiency   is  not the main issue when it comes to material use 
>>>>>> in organisms   (cf.  Ref. below). Why certain materials are used 
>>>>>> seems to be a   result of  certain constraints. Perhaps there 
>>>>>> were more materials   "at hand" at  the beginning of evolution, 
>>>>>> but some turned out to   be better adapted  than others. Once 
>>>>>> certain materials were   utilized there was no way  back. There 
>>>>>> may be similarities to form   and structure constraints.  An 
>>>>>> example is our spine, a   torpedo-bridge-tower-construction, 
>>>>>> i.e.  in fish it serves a shape   adopted to swimming, in 
>>>>>> quadrupeds the  construction was bridge   like, and in humans 
>>>>>> (bipeds) tower like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Title: Bionics and Ecodesign: how are materials used in nature,   
>>>>>> and  what can thus be applied to sustainable product design?
>>>>>> Author(s): Drack, M
>>>>>> Conference Information: 1st International Conference on Design 
>>>>>> and    Nature, Date: 2002 UDINE ITALY
>>>>>> Source: DESIGN AND NATURE: COMPARING DESIGN IN NATURE WITH 
>>>>>> SCIENCE    AND ENGINEERING   Volume: 3   Pages: 369-378   
>>>>>> Published: 2002
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Timothy McGee schrieb:
>>>>>> **Julian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have also wondered the same thing, and even taking it a step   
>>>>>> more  detailed- why these particular Amino Acids?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nikolay's and Steven's comments reminded me of a quote:
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched 
>>>>>> to    everything else in the Universe." - John Muir
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *A study by Greg Engle 
>>>>>> (http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/PBD-quantum-secrets.html ), 
>>>>>> gave me an idea. The key challenge to any organization of matter 
>>>>>> is energy...in whatever framework you wish to use, entropy, 
>>>>>> thermodynamics, etc... but it appears that the quantum 
>>>>>> interactions of these particular 21 Amino Acids allow the capture 
>>>>>> and transfer of light to chemically stored energy...this in itself
>>>>>> might explain the 'history' of these particular amino acids for   
>>>>>> the polymers of life- or at least could be part of the story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> -- 
>>>>>> Samuel Bautista Lazo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UNIVERSITY OF LIVERPOOL
>>>>>> PhD Research Student
>>>>>> Design for Sustainability: Industrial Methods
>>>>>> Cellphone: +44 753 856 0787
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> skype: samuel.bautista.lazo
>>>>>> www.geocities.com/dixzarugs
>>>>>> www.dixzarugs.etsy.com
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/dixza
>>>>>> www.flickr.com/dixza
>>>>>> http://www.dixza.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> www.flickr.com/teotitlan
>>>>>> http://blogs.ebay.com/dixza
>>>>>> http://dixza.podbean.com/
>>>>>> www.metroflog.com/dixza
>>>>>>
>>>>>> messenger: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -- 
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