How about cloth?
Bob Miller
Julian Vincent wrote:
> You could say that paper is hierarchical in that the hierarchy of the
> material from which you make it (wood) is not entirely destroyed.
> This leads to confusion, since paper-makers talk about fibres which we
> call cells. The nanofibres in the cell wall can be seen by
> papermakers when they beat the furnish and get fringes of cellulose
> nanofibres sticking out and interacting with nanofibres from other
> cells. So paper is hierarchical, but as far as man is concerned it's
> by default! Some papers are made from nanofibres direct and they are
> very stiff. Bacterial cellulose has been used to make the loudspeaker
> cones of ear-pieces (though I expect technology has moved on since then).
>
> Julian
>
> On 19 Mar 2009, at 15:40, a.g.atkins wrote:
>
>> How small are the smallest fibres in paper? Aren't they greater than
>> the smallest microstructural features?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mar 19 2009, Olga Bogatyreva wrote:
>>
>>> No. Paper is the result of total destruction of the initial timber
>>> hierarchical organisation and also withdrawal of lignin, resins,
>>> etc. and then making the new material from that what is left
>>> without special strucutre and hierarchy.
>>>
>>> Nikolay
>>>
>>> Quoting "a.g.atkins" <[log in to unmask]>:
>>>
>>>> Paper, too, as well as rope?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mar 18 2009, Julian Vincent wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> I agree entirely about taking biologicl concepts and putting
>>>>> them into an engineering context. A fair amount of the
>>>>> advantage is lost. One answer is to take a cue from biology at
>>>>> a deeper level. You don't need to get organisms to make things
>>>>> for you, but perhaps use the idea of assembling components
>>>>> rather than synthesising them. At present rope is one of the
>>>>> few materials we have which is assembled hierarchically. This
>>>>> embodies quite a few attributes of biological systems. There
>>>>> are as many levels of hierarchy in a single hair as in an
>>>>> aircraft sitting on the tarmac in an airport. There are other
>>>>> advantages in assembly such as control of fracture behaviour.
>>>>> Have a look at Vincent, J.F.V., Biomimetic materials. Journal
>>>>> of Materials Research, 2008. 23: p. 3140-3147 for a more
>>>>> complete exposition.
>>>>>
>>>>> Julian
>>>>> ------------------------------------------------
>>>>> MA, PhD, DSc, FRES, MIMMM, CEng, FIMechE
>>>>> Laburnum Cottage
>>>>> 48 Frome Road
>>>>> Odd Down
>>>>> BATH
>>>>> BA2 2QB
>>>>> tel: 01225 835076
>>>>> Mob: 07941 933 901
>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Mar 2009, at 22:13, Samuel Bautista Lazo wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi all!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In the design for sustainable products I was wondering why most
>>>>>> of the Biomimetic efforts are aimed at mimicking nature to
>>>>>> improve the functionality of products but at the end the
>>>>>> improved products are still made out of synthetic materials
>>>>>> (the geko tape, or the Spedo fastskin swimming suit, lotusan
>>>>>> paint)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What are the challenges for using biological processes and
>>>>>> metabolisms to sustainabilly produce the materials we need to
>>>>>> obtain the functionality for everyday products?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Using those materials can we design biological manufacturing
>>>>>> proceses to make the products we need for a sustainable future?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> If we can may be that would reduce the burden on the
>>>>>> environment and the consumption of non renewable resources or
>>>>>> even more may be that could contribute to restorative
>>>>>> production/consumption systems.
>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Mar 18, 2009 at 4:19 PM, Manfred Drack
>>>>>> <[log in to unmask]
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> In my PhD thesis I came to the conclusion that energy
>>>>>> efficiency is not the main issue when it comes to material use
>>>>>> in organisms (cf. Ref. below). Why certain materials are used
>>>>>> seems to be a result of certain constraints. Perhaps there
>>>>>> were more materials "at hand" at the beginning of evolution,
>>>>>> but some turned out to be better adapted than others. Once
>>>>>> certain materials were utilized there was no way back. There
>>>>>> may be similarities to form and structure constraints. An
>>>>>> example is our spine, a torpedo-bridge-tower-construction,
>>>>>> i.e. in fish it serves a shape adopted to swimming, in
>>>>>> quadrupeds the construction was bridge like, and in humans
>>>>>> (bipeds) tower like.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Title: Bionics and Ecodesign: how are materials used in nature,
>>>>>> and what can thus be applied to sustainable product design?
>>>>>> Author(s): Drack, M
>>>>>> Conference Information: 1st International Conference on Design
>>>>>> and Nature, Date: 2002 UDINE ITALY
>>>>>> Source: DESIGN AND NATURE: COMPARING DESIGN IN NATURE WITH
>>>>>> SCIENCE AND ENGINEERING Volume: 3 Pages: 369-378
>>>>>> Published: 2002
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Yours,
>>>>>> Manfred
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Timothy McGee schrieb:
>>>>>> **Julian,
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I have also wondered the same thing, and even taking it a step
>>>>>> more detailed- why these particular Amino Acids?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Nikolay's and Steven's comments reminded me of a quote:
>>>>>> *
>>>>>> "When we try to pick out anything by itself, we find it hitched
>>>>>> to everything else in the Universe." - John Muir
>>>>>>
>>>>>> *A study by Greg Engle
>>>>>> (http://www.lbl.gov/Science-Articles/Archive/PBD-quantum-secrets.html ),
>>>>>> gave me an idea. The key challenge to any organization of matter
>>>>>> is energy...in whatever framework you wish to use, entropy,
>>>>>> thermodynamics, etc... but it appears that the quantum
>>>>>> interactions of these particular 21 Amino Acids allow the capture
>>>>>> and transfer of light to chemically stored energy...this in itself
>>>>>> might explain the 'history' of these particular amino acids for
>>>>>> the polymers of life- or at least could be part of the story.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>> Tim
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Samuel Bautista Lazo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> UNIVERSITY OF LIVERPOOL
>>>>>> PhD Research Student
>>>>>> Design for Sustainability: Industrial Methods
>>>>>> Cellphone: +44 753 856 0787
>>>>>> [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> skype: samuel.bautista.lazo
>>>>>> www.geocities.com/dixzarugs
>>>>>> www.dixzarugs.etsy.com
>>>>>> www.youtube.com/dixza
>>>>>> www.flickr.com/dixza
>>>>>> http://www.dixza.blogspot.com/
>>>>>> www.flickr.com/teotitlan
>>>>>> http://blogs.ebay.com/dixza
>>>>>> http://dixza.podbean.com/
>>>>>> www.metroflog.com/dixza
>>>>>>
>>>>>> messenger: [log in to unmask]
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> =
>>>
>>
>> --
>> =
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