medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I like these ideas too. Heraldry (as I am revealing about so many other
things) is not really my thing but this description says that the funeral
was organized by Garter King of Arms - which is, I think, as good a herald
as you can get - and, perhaps, another indication of how close Hill was to
the king. And my feeling is that, if they were anything like their
successors, these heralds were quite picky about detail. Of course, 'noble
et tresprudent' is a pretty catch-all description of a dead bishop and, as
you suggest, 'parrain' could follow on from that as a sort of spiritual
counsellor?
many thanks
Rosemary
----- Original Message -----
From: "John Dillon" <[log in to unmask]>
To: <[log in to unmask]>
Sent: Thursday, August 07, 2008 7:55 PM
Subject: Re: [M-R] ?St Roch/parrain
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
>
> Casting around in the Tobler-Lommatzsch (VII, 343) for possible instances
> of 'parrain' in an extended meaning that wasn't so indicated, I found the
> apostle Thomas called 'li parreins' of St. Thomas Becket (Guernes de
> Pont-Sainte-Maxence, _La Vie de Saint Thomas Becket_, ed. E. Walberg
> [1936], 5861). If a name saint can be a 'parrain' then perhaps an older
> religious figure perceived as having been supportive can be too. Just a
> thought.
>
> Out of curiosity, is there any reason to think this herald particularly
> knowledgeable? Lower-level functionaries and tradesmen with frequent
> business at court in late fifteenth-century Naples were quite capable of
> getting things wrong (even on such basic matters as official titles).
>
> Best,
> John Dillon
>
>
> On Thursday, August 7, 2008, at 11:55 am, Rosemary wrote:
>
>> On 'parrain', I asked if it had an earlier meaning than godfather -
>> and
>> yours is the only response so far. My Bishop Hill (I seem to have
>> been
>> living with him so long that he has become 'mine') was described in a
>>
>> herald's description of his funeral as 'parrain' of Henry VII. I have
>> no
>> evidence he was the king's godfather and a large dictionary that I
>> consulted
>> in the BL department of MSS said that it could also mean 'beloved'.
>> All my
>> online googling has come up with godparent, sponsor, etc but I was
>> hoping
>> that some of those who work in Medieval French might have some other
>> ideas.
>> it could, of course be 'parram' - which might suggest racier thoughts
>>
>> thank you
>> Rosemary
>
> **********************************************************************
> To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
> to: [log in to unmask]
> To send a message to the list, address it to:
> [log in to unmask]
> To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
> to: [log in to unmask]
> In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
> [log in to unmask]
> For further information, visit our web site:
> http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
**********************************************************************
To join the list, send the message: join medieval-religion YOUR NAME
to: [log in to unmask]
To send a message to the list, address it to:
[log in to unmask]
To leave the list, send the message: leave medieval-religion
to: [log in to unmask]
In order to report problems or to contact the list's owners, write to:
[log in to unmask]
For further information, visit our web site:
http://www.jiscmail.ac.uk/lists/medieval-religion.html
|