medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and culture
I learned that in Latin, the left shoulder (nearest the heart) is touched before the right, because Spiritus comes before Sanctus. In English this does not work out correctly. In Eastern Churches, "Holy" precedes "Spirit" and thus the right shoulder is touched before the left.
Cyprian Rosen
> -----Original Message-----
> From: medieval-religion - Scholarly discussions of medieval religious
> culture [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Diana
> Wright
> Sent: Wednesday, May 14, 2008 4:43 PM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: [M-R] Sign of the cross
>
> medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
>
> Great questions, & I want to piggy-back on these. I 'learned" in
> graduate school that traditionally "all" churches crossed right-to-
> left,
> as the Orthodox do now, but that at the Lateran Council of 1215, it was
> changed in the West to left-to-right as part of the process of
> differentiation. Is this remotely accurate?
>
> DW
>
>
>
>
> Chris Laning wrote:
> > medieval-religion: Scholarly discussions of medieval religion and
> culture
> >
> > An interesting question came up in a discussion I had recently, and I
> thought someone here might be able to point me toward some resources.
> >
> > The question is, what do we know about exactly _how_ someone in, for
> instance, England of the 1480s would have gone about the sequence of
> gestures we call "making the sign of the cross" -- and how do we know
> it? And under what circumstances would they do it?
> >
> > There seems to be plenty of modern anecdotal evidence (mostly people
> saying "it's always been done this way") but I haven't the least idea
> where to start looking for actual source material. Pointers toward
> where to find this sort of thing would be much appreciated.
> >
> > I suspect it's one of those things that historically, nobody bothered
> to write down because everyone knew it. (I'm sure we all have times
> when we wish we could joggle our ancestors' elbows and whisper, "Write
> it down, dammit!" )
> >
> > I'm referring here specifically to the sequence of gestures used in
> blessing _oneself_ -- not the gesture someone like a priest might use
> when invoking blessing upon someone or something else.
> >
> > I do know that in modern times it's not necessarily the same in all
> cultures -- I seem to recall that in the Eastern Christian traditions
> the right shoulder is touched before the left, while in the West it's
> more often the reverse. I've seen people from Hispanic cultures kiss
> their thumbnail at the end of the sequence. But that's about all the
> information I presently have.
> >
> > Some of the detail questions I'd love to find answers to include:
> which hand makes the gesture, and if not the whole hand, which fingers?
> What parts of the body are touched and in what sequence? What words are
> said (to oneself or aloud) while the gesture is being made? Is there
> more than one version common at a particular time and place?
> >
> > And on what occasions is the sign made? I know (because I see it all
> the time) that modern Roman Catholics routinely make the sign of the
> cross at the beginning and end of an interval of prayer. I seem to
> recall that "traditionally" it used to be common to make the sign when
> the dead are mentioned, or as a quick ritual prayer against harm. But
> finding these things out about a particular time and place in history
> seems to be much more difficult.
> >
> > The immediate occasion where this came up -- just for context -- was
> in discussing a passage from _The Babees Book_ that describes grace
> before and after meals. The edition we were looking at was at Google
> books, and I notice that at the head of the "Latin Graces" section it
> says this is from the Balliol MS. 354, leaf 2 -- which I don't know
> anything about, including the date. The sign of the cross is not
> mentioned anywhere in the process -- but it's not clear whether that's
> because it wasn't used (for instance, if this text dates to after the
> Reformation, in which case what's "Ave Regina Caelorum" doing in there
> at Easter?), or because everyone knew when and how to do it so no one
> wrote it down.
> >
> > The Google books link (watch the wrap...):
> >
> <http://books.google.com/books?id=3X0NAAAAQAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=T
> he+Babees+Book:+Aristotle%
> 27s+A+B+C,+Urbanitatis,+Stans+Puer+Ad+Mensam#PPA382,M1>
> >
> > (BTW, even the grace before meals in "ordinary time" given here seems
> to be an extraordinary mishmash of texts. I was quite startled to see
> the "Kyrie Eleison" in the middle of it!)
> >
> > ____________________________________________________________
> > 0 Chris Laning
> > | <[log in to unmask]>
> > + Davis, California
> > http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com
> > ____________________________________________________________
> >
> >
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