yes,
ranulph,
this is a special case of what i was presenting
klaus
-----Original Message-----
From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and related
research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On Behalf Of Ranulph
Glanville
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 2:04 AM
To: [log in to unmask]
Subject: Re: Is all writing fiction?
This quote from Heinz von Foerster seems relevant:
"Objectivity is the delusion that observations could be made without an
observer"
Ranulph
On 23 Jan 2008, at 06:23, Klaus Krippendorff wrote:
> david,
>
> i would not say and never said that "all non-fiction is fiction."
> indeed,
> this would not say much -- but this is your exception.
>
> i tried to answer your question: if (as i said) THE WORLD WE KNOW IS
> FICTION, what is non-fiction? and in my answer i granted you to make
> the distinction between non-fiction and fiction as you wish, but this
> does not give you access to anything outside your own nervous system
> within which you construct the world you know. epistemologically, the
> world you know does not represent the world to which you have no
> direct access. if non- fiction means describing the world as is --
> unframed by the language used to describe it and without acknowledging
> its conceptualization by your nervous system, then i call this claim
> illusionary, indeed.
>
> klaus
>
> pleas don't gloss over the fine points i made k
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: PhD-Design - This list is for discussion of PhD studies and
> related research in Design [mailto:[log in to unmask]] On
> Behalf Of David Sless
> Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2008 12:40 AM
> To: [log in to unmask]
> Subject: Re: Is all writing fiction?
>
> On 23/01/2008, at 3:42 PM, Klaus Krippendorff wrote:
>> are you buying into russell's theory of logical types, david?
>
> Not at all, just trying to make sense of what you are saying, but
> without much success.
>
> If, as you say, all non-fiction is fiction, then I don't think you
> have said anything useful.
>
> I have a fairly good idea in ordinary usage of when to describe
> something as fiction and something else as non-fiction. When I go to
> my local library or book shop and see signs that point me to fiction
> and non-fiction, I know which section to go to for books on gardening
> and where I will find books by Agatha Christie. It is of no value to
> me to be told in that context that all non-fiction is fiction. If I
> follow your advice I will look in the wrong place for gardening books.
>
> If the fiction/non-fiction distinction works usefully why would I
> abandon it? I can accept that gardening books are 'socially
> constructed', and that there are some works that sit uneasily at the
> boundary of fiction and non-fiction, like Moby Dick, but I still find
> the distinction useful.
>
> When you say: THE WORLD WE KNOW IS FICTION, I don't know what you are
> saying that would fit into any of the normal contexts in which I would
> use the terms fiction and non-fiction.
>
> David
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